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Monday, June 2nd Daily Discussion
Topic Started: May 31 2014, 02:33 AM (21,553 Views)
six
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Honeybees
Jun 3 2014, 07:38 AM
Isn't Sonny just as much of a parent to Arianna as Will or Gabi? Wouldn't she feel his loss just as much? On top of that, Sonny seems to be the most consistent, emotionally stable parent and the one with the means to provide her with a stable, financially healthy household. Yes, Will was acting out of love and guilt, but it's not as though Arianna wasn't going to lose one of her parents in this scenario and Sonny, the fact that Will thought Sonny killed someone notwithstanding, would probably win the contest for being the best of the three.

Would people be hating on Will as much if he thought he was protecting Gabi? And if so, is the fact that she's the mother make a big difference? It always does with the courts, of course. All three of these people have raised the child from birth, and I think Ari would feel the loss of any of them fairly significantly. Perhaps making sure that Ari had a father who was able to support her and provide her with a consistent, stable home was in her best interest.
I think the "Sonny is the father" argument will be more compelling once Sonny legally adopts Ari, or once he's raised Ari for a number of years. There are characters all over Salem who raised or were raised by someone for a couple of years, growing up, that they have little to no contact with, now.
Edited by six, Jun 3 2014, 08:08 AM.
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Yoryla
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Jennifer would not have had a picture like that on her mantel. OTT.
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Yoryla
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PALMommy
Jun 2 2014, 11:46 PM
marie1969
Jun 2 2014, 10:38 PM
justforfun
Jun 2 2014, 01:22 PM
CB literally was the highlight of this show today. She was amazing in her scenes - kudos to her. I felt her pain and guilt as the abuse victim. And her scenes were written beautifully. This was by far her best work and should be her emmy reel. Hoping for more great scenes from her in these next few days until her exit.

What pissed me off? Everyone else's reply / reactions. Sami seemed almost gleeful, and Will and Sonny are displaying their happiness over Will's "being free". It was horribly written, and horribly acted. Even EJ only tried to talk Gabi out of confessing ... for maybe 15 seconds, until he realized that by her doing so would let the rest of them (himself included) off the hook. They should have been much more concerned about her instead of just playing it like oh, well that sucks, huh. They should be thankful to her that she's not going to sell Sami and Kate down the river or the rest of them. Imo, Kami are the reason this whole mess happened.

I hope Rafe's reaction to all of them is to tell them all they are ALL to blame for where Gabi is sitting. He tried to help her, but everyone told him to stay out of it, and in the end, they didn't help her either. I want to see Rafe go bat-shit crazy on them!

Even Hope's reply to Gabi pissed me off. When Gabi apologized to Hope, and her reply was He didn't deserve to die. That may be true, but her response should have been imo, I'm sorry, too.

As far as Ericole goes, I'm just glad the truth is out. Days ruined them for me and I don't want to see Nicole grovel in any way. I do like the fact that she told him that he picked her and her reasoning for lying to him. I also want to see Daniel get pissy with Jen Jen for telling Eric - it was not her place. It pisses me off that's how it played out. Of course, Daniel shouldn't have been a part of it either. But Nicole needs to tell all of them to fuck off, including Eric.
Well Gabi is an adult and she chose to confess in spite of the advice of her attorney. She was determined to confess because she felt guilty and wanted to unburden herself. What was Ej supposed to do? force her? Legally, an attorney can not go against the decision of his client. All they can do is give them legal advice. Ultimately, it is their choice.

Sami was not gleeful, not in the least. I watched the scenes more than once and I never saw that. First she was shocked, then relieved for her son's sake and finally concerned and sympathetic toward Gabi and Ari. She even worried about Rafe. What else was she supposed to do? confess too?

Neither Kami, nor Wilson should be blamed for the decision that Gabi made. They tried to help her, they tried to reason with her and even pleaded with her. They were supportive and protective of her. They even risked their freedom to protect her ass. All of them. Gabi could have turned to them and share her fears. They could have teamed up together and fight back. But Gabi chose to do it her own way. Sadly, she gambled and lost.

As far as Rafe is concerned, if Rafe had given 2 shit about Gabi, he would have been there for her while she was going through all this. He knew Gabi was in trouble. He is super Rafe. He was able to expose Ej, expose Nicole and figure out that Sydney was Sami's, but he can not put 2 and 2 together and get 4?!! He is supposed to be a detective for Gwad sake. The only reason he did not help Gabi is because he did not care, no if or but. He swore he would find out what was going on and he never followed through. So if Rafe wants to blame someone for what happened to Gabi, you should look in the mirror. He was supposed to watch out for her and he did not. He dropped the ball. It is on him.
You know, you mentioned Kate. .. I can't WAIT to hear what she has to say about all this. Where's she been anyway? :shrug: I mean Lucas is hauled down to the station (was she there??) and then Will's about to confess and now Gabi!?!? Where's Kate????
Bah, Kate would probably set up Gabi with a trustfund for killing Nick!
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Kaha
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Honeybees
Jun 3 2014, 07:50 AM
astropastel
Jun 3 2014, 07:43 AM
Honeybees
Jun 3 2014, 07:38 AM
Isn't Sonny just as much of a parent to Arianna as Will or Gabi? Wouldn't she feel his loss just as much? On top of that, Sonny seems to be the most consistent, emotionally stable parent and the one with the means to provide her with a stable, financially healthy household. Yes, Will was acting out of love and guilt, but it's not as though Arianna wasn't going to lose one of her parents in this scenario and Sonny, the fact that Will thought Sonny killed someone notwithstanding, would probably win the contest for being the best of the three.

Would people be hating on Will as much if he thought he was protecting Gabi? And if so, is the fact that she's the mother make a big difference? It always does with the courts, of course. All three of these people have raised the child from birth, and I think Ari would feel the loss of any of them fairly significantly. Perhaps making sure that Ari had a father who was able to support her and provide her with a consistent, stable home was in her best interest.
Biologically she is Will's child Sonny Gabi or anybody else should never come before your child.
I'm an adopted child. I can't tell you how often people find that out and ask me who my real parents were. My real parents were the people who raised me, and the ignorance that permeates our society on this issue is both astounding and chilling. I thank heaven every day that the woman who gave birth to me had the courage to know that she was not capable of raising me. She was not selfish. She was not a coward. And she was a better person than most.

Obviously, this scenario is different from the one onscreen (I think Will was un-wise, too) , but it does boil down to the fact that there is a deep prejudice in this world against adopted families and that's very sad.
Even in Will's case, it's okay for a would be parent to ponder what's best for the child and if he/she was the right person to raise it. Ari was not a living child infront of him when these discussions were made. It's not like he gave up an actual living baby. Bonding with the baby takes time and I don't think someone exploring options and thinking about what's best for the baby should be stigmitized.
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Yoryla
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Kaha
Jun 3 2014, 12:03 AM
PALMommy
Jun 2 2014, 11:37 PM
concerned
Jun 2 2014, 10:01 PM
Supergirlx2
Jun 2 2014, 09:57 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
I was referring to characters.

With the exception of baby Ari I can't think of a character who could go up against Ciara and come up well.

Take note of that Theo and Chase.
Actually . . . I have a friend who HATES Ciara.

:run:
I am not that crazy about Ciara. She can be amusing most times, but to tell you the truth, I don't fully get the Ciara worship.
I've seen a lot of anti-Ciara posts in other places, mostly ones that want for Hope to get her "horrible daughter in check" though. But then again they know nothing imo. lol.
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What if one day Will and Sonny got divorced and Will went on to marry someone else, now would Will be still be willing to share Arianna with Sonny? What if Sonny moved out of town and still wanted his rights as a parent, would Will be willing to send Arianna off to spend Christmas or the summer with her other father even though Sonny was no longer a part of his life or would he resent it?
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Yoryla
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concerned
Jun 2 2014, 03:13 PM
Yoryla
Jun 2 2014, 03:04 PM
LanaluvsBroe
Jun 2 2014, 12:49 PM
Angelsmile
Jun 2 2014, 12:45 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
It's hard to hate a character who continually gets shit on year after year after year. Nicole is in the wrong, however, she still comes off as the sympathetic one here because of all the shit she's been through and because AZ is brilliant. The writers are fucking idiots. :flipoff:
I don't really get that when most of her "shit" have been totally her own doing.
She really should stop choosing to have miscarriages and stillbirths and get cheated on and have dead girlfriends come back to life.

She doesn't handle these thing well (she handles them atrociously) but she generally doesn't start the ball rolling.
And as an addendum to this, I'm sure you knew full well I wasn't talking about any of the babies. She shouldn't have lost them and she should have a child by now.
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six
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marie1969
Jun 2 2014, 10:47 PM
Kaha
Jun 2 2014, 10:30 PM
Will&Sonny
Jun 2 2014, 10:26 PM
Supergirlx2
Jun 2 2014, 09:53 PM
Posted Image

I didn't understand why AS made this almost side-eye expression.
She's just watching Hope's expression. I don't see anything odd about it, personally. That's how one would look at a person they're standing next to instead of in front of. :shrug:
I looked at that picture 4 times and couldn't figure out what the problem was. Then I decided maybe I was not observant.
It is not you LOL. I think that the character is so hated that some look for things that are not even there. I heard Sami was gleeful and was smiling, but I did not see that either.
I saw her smiling with pride when Sonny praised Will. She also smiled when Lucas told her about Ari. Lucas smiled too, but you'd never know that if you relied on this thread for summaries.
Edited by six, Jun 3 2014, 08:31 AM.
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Kaha
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six
Jun 3 2014, 08:26 AM
marie1969
Jun 2 2014, 10:47 PM
Kaha
Jun 2 2014, 10:30 PM
Will&Sonny
Jun 2 2014, 10:26 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepPosted Image
I looked at that picture 4 times and couldn't figure out what the problem was. Then I decided maybe I was not observant.
It is not you LOL. I think that the character is so hated that some look for things that are not even there. I heard Sami was gleeful and was smiling, but I did not see that either.
I saw her smiling with pride when Sonny praised Will and when Lucas told her about Ari. Lucas was also smiling, but you'd never know that if you relied on this thread for summaries.
I was actually proud of Sami. I think she showed restraint and didn't make what was happening about her in anyway. She showed sufficient concern for Gabi. Of course she was relieved her son was not facing life in prison but I can't fault her for that.

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JaimeLannister
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Kaha
Jun 3 2014, 08:03 AM
JaimeLannister
Jun 3 2014, 06:10 AM
Will&Sonny
Jun 3 2014, 02:05 AM
Kaha
Jun 2 2014, 11:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Actually, they already squandered that once long ago, when they decided to retcon Will's decision to let Gabi and Nick raise Arianna into a purely selfish decision driven by his desire to hold on to Sonny instead of what it had actually been in the beginning -- a purely selfless decision driven by his desire to give his daughter the kind of stability that he and his siblings had longed for but had never had.

That was complete and utter bullshit, and I still vehemently object to any implications that it's the least bit true.
There was never anything selfless about Will avoiding his responsibility as a father. He came off as a coward who attempted to rationalize his decision by saying he was doing it for his daughter's sake.
I don't care about how Nick/Gabi/Will storyline was rewritten but I watched it on my screen and I didn't see what you're talking about. Will was straight out of high school, he was struggling with his identity and an older cousin who was an ardent homophone manipulated him into thinking the baby would be better off raised in "stable home," and with two parents. Throughout that first storyline, almost all of Will's conversations with Nick and Gabi (together or separately) revolved around what's best for the baby and about how Gabi and Nick were a better option for her. Will's turbulent childhood came in to the discussion more than anything else. Will agonized over this and when he came to term with the situation and fell in love with his unborn baby, Nick blackmailed him. So, for Will, it was a choice between ruining his family's life or letting his baby live with her mother and the homophobe of her choice. But even that didn't take long for Will to realize it was not a good option for his daughter.

Will was young and confused. Besides, you're making it seem like no one can ever decide their child would have a better life if they were raised by someone else. You are condemning a lot of parents who give up their children out of love and necessity. If biology was the only deciding factor as to what makes a parent then we're in a lot of trouble.
My post was specifically about Will, not a general statement about parents that give up their children, so I don't understand how you can assume I think biological parents make better parents or that I'm prejudiced against adoption.

I never saw Will as na´ve when he got Gabi pregnant which I'd probably why I never had much sympathy for him. Just earlier that year he'd been working for EJ, showing some backbone and a level of cunningness. He could've stood up for himself but decided not to. When Nick blackmailed him he didn't put up much of a fight. He should've chosen life in prison(for a crime he did commit) instead of just rolling over and giving up his child. I could understand why his "troubled" childhood might have made him think his child would've been off with Nick and Gabi. However, considering both his parents have attempted to marry other people more than once he should've been more cynical about the idea of Nick and Gabi's marriage working out. Especially since he they barely even knew each other at the time. Not wanting to lose Sonny is a part of why Will was prepared give his child up. He even admitted to it. That's selfish and cowardly, in my book.
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justforfun


marie1969
Jun 2 2014, 10:38 PM
justforfun
Jun 2 2014, 01:22 PM
CB literally was the highlight of this show today. She was amazing in her scenes - kudos to her. I felt her pain and guilt as the abuse victim. And her scenes were written beautifully. This was by far her best work and should be her emmy reel. Hoping for more great scenes from her in these next few days until her exit.

What pissed me off? Everyone else's reply / reactions. Sami seemed almost gleeful, and Will and Sonny are displaying their happiness over Will's "being free". It was horribly written, and horribly acted. Even EJ only tried to talk Gabi out of confessing ... for maybe 15 seconds, until he realized that by her doing so would let the rest of them (himself included) off the hook. They should have been much more concerned about her instead of just playing it like oh, well that sucks, huh. They should be thankful to her that she's not going to sell Sami and Kate down the river or the rest of them. Imo, Kami are the reason this whole mess happened.

I hope Rafe's reaction to all of them is to tell them all they are ALL to blame for where Gabi is sitting. He tried to help her, but everyone told him to stay out of it, and in the end, they didn't help her either. I want to see Rafe go bat-shit crazy on them!

Even Hope's reply to Gabi pissed me off. When Gabi apologized to Hope, and her reply was He didn't deserve to die. That may be true, but her response should have been imo, I'm sorry, too.

As far as Ericole goes, I'm just glad the truth is out. Days ruined them for me and I don't want to see Nicole grovel in any way. I do like the fact that she told him that he picked her and her reasoning for lying to him. I also want to see Daniel get pissy with Jen Jen for telling Eric - it was not her place. It pisses me off that's how it played out. Of course, Daniel shouldn't have been a part of it either. But Nicole needs to tell all of them to fuck off, including Eric.
Well Gabi is an adult and she chose to confess in spite of the advice of her attorney. She was determined to confess because she felt guilty and wanted to unburden herself. What was Ej supposed to do? force her? Legally, an attorney can not go against the decision of his client. All they can do is give them legal advice. Ultimately, it is their choice.

Sami was not gleeful, not in the least. I watched the scenes more than once and I never saw that. First she was shocked, then relieved for her son's sake and finally concerned and sympathetic toward Gabi and Ari. She even worried about Rafe. What else was she supposed to do? confess too?

Neither Kami, nor Wilson should be blamed for the decision that Gabi made. They tried to help her, they tried to reason with her and even pleaded with her. They were supportive and protective of her. They even risked their freedom to protect her ass. All of them. Gabi could have turned to them and share her fears. They could have teamed up together and fight back. But Gabi chose to do it her own way. Sadly, she gambled and lost.

As far as Rafe is concerned, if Rafe had given 2 shit about Gabi, he would have been there for her while she was going through all this. He knew Gabi was in trouble. He is super Rafe. He was able to expose Ej, expose Nicole and figure out that Sydney was Sami's, but he can not put 2 and 2 together and get 4?!! He is supposed to be a detective for Gwad sake. The only reason he did not help Gabi is because he did not care, no if or but. He swore he would find out what was going on and he never followed through. So if Rafe wants to blame someone for what happened to Gabi, you should look in the mirror. He was supposed to watch out for her and he did not. He dropped the ball. It is on him.
I watched the show, too, and Sami did not show compassion. And Sami smiled/smirked when Gabi first came into the room and told Will not to sign b/c she did it. That was at the end of Friday's episode. Will and Sonny seemed less concerned about her situation than I think they should have. They were discussing their future with Ari without her mom as if picking a movie to see. EJ should not be representing her, and yes he tried to tell her not to say anything, but as soon as she said she didn't want anyone else getting in trouble, he shut his mouth. So, yes, I think there could have been more compassion from people. Yes, she shot him, but they should really thank her for that. It's not like EJ and Sami didn't have a hit out on the guy. They are not innocent. Sonny, Will and Lucas all thought about it as well. Even Lucas took a gun to the park.

I blame Kami for the mess since they were the ones to talk her into dumping him in the river. Sami claimed he was dead and both of them wanted him out of their lives, so there was some selfishness to it. I certainly don't blame Gabi for hitting him in the head when he tried to rape her. She was the most innocent in that situation. She was in shock and not sure what to do. Personally, I never liked that part of the story b/c it didn't make sense to me. If they thought he was dead, she would have claimed self defense with the police and the secret would have not been exposed.

Rafe cares a lot for Gabi. They have a great sibling relationship and he has been there for her since Nick's murder. He thought everything was ok with her when it wasn't. But no one would let him in on anything when he tried to find out, and she seemed better, so why should he be worried. I'm sure he never suspected her. I don't blame him for turning off his phone during sex, either. lol It doesn't mean he doesn't care. He had time off from work. :shrug: I don't blame him at all for what happened. I blame the writers for not putting him in more of her orbit, though, instead of EJ.
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astropastel
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Kaha
Jun 3 2014, 08:10 AM
Honeybees
Jun 3 2014, 07:50 AM
astropastel
Jun 3 2014, 07:43 AM
Honeybees
Jun 3 2014, 07:38 AM
Isn't Sonny just as much of a parent to Arianna as Will or Gabi? Wouldn't she feel his loss just as much? On top of that, Sonny seems to be the most consistent, emotionally stable parent and the one with the means to provide her with a stable, financially healthy household. Yes, Will was acting out of love and guilt, but it's not as though Arianna wasn't going to lose one of her parents in this scenario and Sonny, the fact that Will thought Sonny killed someone notwithstanding, would probably win the contest for being the best of the three.

Would people be hating on Will as much if he thought he was protecting Gabi? And if so, is the fact that she's the mother make a big difference? It always does with the courts, of course. All three of these people have raised the child from birth, and I think Ari would feel the loss of any of them fairly significantly. Perhaps making sure that Ari had a father who was able to support her and provide her with a consistent, stable home was in her best interest.
Biologically she is Will's child Sonny Gabi or anybody else should never come before your child.
I'm an adopted child. I can't tell you how often people find that out and ask me who my real parents were. My real parents were the people who raised me, and the ignorance that permeates our society on this issue is both astounding and chilling. I thank heaven every day that the woman who gave birth to me had the courage to know that she was not capable of raising me. She was not selfish. She was not a coward. And she was a better person than most.

Obviously, this scenario is different from the one onscreen (I think Will was un-wise, too) , but it does boil down to the fact that there is a deep prejudice in this world against adopted families and that's very sad.
Even in Will's case, it's okay for a would be parent to ponder what's best for the child and if he/she was the right person to raise it. Ari was not a living child infront of him when these discussions were made. It's not like he gave up an actual living baby. Bonding with the baby takes time and I don't think someone exploring options and thinking about what's best for the baby should be stigmitized.
Did he not just the other day confess to a crime he did not commit to protect his husband not the child he has bonded with feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I look at adoption as one of the greatest things in the world my parents were stuck with me your parents chose you is what I tell a friend of mine. I am also of the opinion that if you can't be a responsible adult to take precautions if you don't want children maybe you should keep your zipper up and your legs closed.
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camera shy


justforfun
Jun 3 2014, 09:23 AM
marie1969
Jun 2 2014, 10:38 PM
justforfun
Jun 2 2014, 01:22 PM
CB literally was the highlight of this show today. She was amazing in her scenes - kudos to her. I felt her pain and guilt as the abuse victim. And her scenes were written beautifully. This was by far her best work and should be her emmy reel. Hoping for more great scenes from her in these next few days until her exit.

What pissed me off? Everyone else's reply / reactions. Sami seemed almost gleeful, and Will and Sonny are displaying their happiness over Will's "being free". It was horribly written, and horribly acted. Even EJ only tried to talk Gabi out of confessing ... for maybe 15 seconds, until he realized that by her doing so would let the rest of them (himself included) off the hook. They should have been much more concerned about her instead of just playing it like oh, well that sucks, huh. They should be thankful to her that she's not going to sell Sami and Kate down the river or the rest of them. Imo, Kami are the reason this whole mess happened.

I hope Rafe's reaction to all of them is to tell them all they are ALL to blame for where Gabi is sitting. He tried to help her, but everyone told him to stay out of it, and in the end, they didn't help her either. I want to see Rafe go bat-shit crazy on them!

Even Hope's reply to Gabi pissed me off. When Gabi apologized to Hope, and her reply was He didn't deserve to die. That may be true, but her response should have been imo, I'm sorry, too.

As far as Ericole goes, I'm just glad the truth is out. Days ruined them for me and I don't want to see Nicole grovel in any way. I do like the fact that she told him that he picked her and her reasoning for lying to him. I also want to see Daniel get pissy with Jen Jen for telling Eric - it was not her place. It pisses me off that's how it played out. Of course, Daniel shouldn't have been a part of it either. But Nicole needs to tell all of them to fuck off, including Eric.
Well Gabi is an adult and she chose to confess in spite of the advice of her attorney. She was determined to confess because she felt guilty and wanted to unburden herself. What was Ej supposed to do? force her? Legally, an attorney can not go against the decision of his client. All they can do is give them legal advice. Ultimately, it is their choice.

Sami was not gleeful, not in the least. I watched the scenes more than once and I never saw that. First she was shocked, then relieved for her son's sake and finally concerned and sympathetic toward Gabi and Ari. She even worried about Rafe. What else was she supposed to do? confess too?

Neither Kami, nor Wilson should be blamed for the decision that Gabi made. They tried to help her, they tried to reason with her and even pleaded with her. They were supportive and protective of her. They even risked their freedom to protect her ass. All of them. Gabi could have turned to them and share her fears. They could have teamed up together and fight back. But Gabi chose to do it her own way. Sadly, she gambled and lost.

As far as Rafe is concerned, if Rafe had given 2 shit about Gabi, he would have been there for her while she was going through all this. He knew Gabi was in trouble. He is super Rafe. He was able to expose Ej, expose Nicole and figure out that Sydney was Sami's, but he can not put 2 and 2 together and get 4?!! He is supposed to be a detective for Gwad sake. The only reason he did not help Gabi is because he did not care, no if or but. He swore he would find out what was going on and he never followed through. So if Rafe wants to blame someone for what happened to Gabi, you should look in the mirror. He was supposed to watch out for her and he did not. He dropped the ball. It is on him.
I watched the show, too, and Sami did not show compassion. And Sami smiled/smirked when Gabi first came into the room and told Will not to sign b/c she did it. That was at the end of Friday's episode. Will and Sonny seemed less concerned about her situation than I think they should have. They were discussing their future with Ari without her mom as if picking a movie to see. EJ should not be representing her, and yes he tried to tell her not to say anything, but as soon as she said she didn't want anyone else getting in trouble, he shut his mouth. So, yes, I think there could have been more compassion from people. Yes, she shot him, but they should really thank her for that. It's not like EJ and Sami didn't have a hit out on the guy. They are not innocent. Sonny, Will and Lucas all thought about it as well. Even Lucas took a gun to the park.

I blame Kami for the mess since they were the ones to talk her into dumping him in the river. Sami claimed he was dead and both of them wanted him out of their lives, so there was some selfishness to it. I certainly don't blame Gabi for hitting him in the head when he tried to rape her. She was the most innocent in that situation. She was in shock and not sure what to do. Personally, I never liked that part of the story b/c it didn't make sense to me. If they thought he was dead, she would have claimed self defense with the police and the secret would have not been exposed.

Rafe cares a lot for Gabi. They have a great sibling relationship and he has been there for her since Nick's murder. He thought everything was ok with her when it wasn't. But no one would let him in on anything when he tried to find out, and she seemed better, so why should he be worried. I'm sure he never suspected her. I don't blame him for turning off his phone during sex, either. lol It doesn't mean he doesn't care. He had time off from work. :shrug: I don't blame him at all for what happened. I blame the writers for not putting him in more of her orbit, though, instead of EJ.
Honestly, Gabi would have been so much better off if Kate and Sami hadn't come along and offered her their so called help the night that Nick tried to rape her. Left to her own devices, she would have either called for help or run off and left Nick there by himself and in time he would have come through and saved himself. Sami and Kate are the ones who put them all under Nick's thumb by their foolish actions. And in the end if she had to answer for the Melanie thing, well it beats outright murder and the sentence that carries. With friends like Sami and Kate who needs enemies?
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cryin4days


Kaha
Jun 3 2014, 08:03 AM
JaimeLannister
Jun 3 2014, 06:10 AM
Will&Sonny
Jun 3 2014, 02:05 AM
Kaha
Jun 2 2014, 11:47 PM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
Actually, they already squandered that once long ago, when they decided to retcon Will's decision to let Gabi and Nick raise Arianna into a purely selfish decision driven by his desire to hold on to Sonny instead of what it had actually been in the beginning -- a purely selfless decision driven by his desire to give his daughter the kind of stability that he and his siblings had longed for but had never had.

That was complete and utter bullshit, and I still vehemently object to any implications that it's the least bit true.
There was never anything selfless about Will avoiding his responsibility as a father. He came off as a coward who attempted to rationalize his decision by saying he was doing it for his daughter's sake.
I don't care about how Nick/Gabi/Will storyline was rewritten but I watched it on my screen and I didn't see what you're talking about. Will was straight out of high school, he was struggling with his identity and an older cousin who was an ardent homophone manipulated him into thinking the baby would be better off raised in "stable home," and with two parents. Throughout that first storyline, almost all of Will's conversations with Nick and Gabi (together or separately) revolved around what's best for the baby and about how Gabi and Nick were a better option for her. Will's turbulent childhood came in to the discussion more than anything else. Will agonized over this and when he came to term with the situation and fell in love with his unborn baby, Nick blackmailed him. So, for Will, it was a choice between ruining his family's life or letting his baby live with her mother and the homophobe of her choice. But even that didn't take long for Will to realize it was not a good option for his daughter.

Will was young and confused. Besides, you're making it seem like no one can ever decide their child would have a better life if they were raised by someone else. You are condemning a lot of parents who give up their children out of love and necessity. If biology was the only deciding factor as to what makes a parent then we're in a lot of trouble.
I'd like to agree with you on this but there was a scene between Will and Justin in the square where Will alluded to giving up his daughter so that he wouldn't loose Sonny. That scene was followed by a scene between Sonny and Justin at the coffee house where Justin asked Sonny if he knew why Will was willing to walk away from his daughter. Those scenes aired during that episode where Will saw Sonny leave the coffee house with Brian. And then there was the key return episode in February 2013 where Will actually told Sonny that even though he knew it was messed up he chose Sonny over his own kid. I initially believed Will was giving up his rights because he truly believed he was doing what was best for Ari by giving her a home with two parents, but then these scenes/conversations came along. I didn't like the implication at all that Will was walking away from his child to hold onto Sonny. Whether it's their intention or not, the writers sometimes show Will as choosing Sonny over Ari.
Edited by cryin4days, Jun 3 2014, 10:06 AM.
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daysjahvu
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Honeybees
Jun 3 2014, 07:50 AM
astropastel
Jun 3 2014, 07:43 AM
Honeybees
Jun 3 2014, 07:38 AM
Isn't Sonny just as much of a parent to Arianna as Will or Gabi? Wouldn't she feel his loss just as much? On top of that, Sonny seems to be the most consistent, emotionally stable parent and the one with the means to provide her with a stable, financially healthy household. Yes, Will was acting out of love and guilt, but it's not as though Arianna wasn't going to lose one of her parents in this scenario and Sonny, the fact that Will thought Sonny killed someone notwithstanding, would probably win the contest for being the best of the three.

Would people be hating on Will as much if he thought he was protecting Gabi? And if so, is the fact that she's the mother make a big difference? It always does with the courts, of course. All three of these people have raised the child from birth, and I think Ari would feel the loss of any of them fairly significantly. Perhaps making sure that Ari had a father who was able to support her and provide her with a consistent, stable home was in her best interest.
Biologically she is Will's child Sonny Gabi or anybody else should never come before your child.
I'm an adopted child. I can't tell you how often people find that out and ask me who my real parents were. My real parents were the people who raised me, and the ignorance that permeates our society on this issue is both astounding and chilling. I thank heaven every day that the woman who gave birth to me had the courage to know that she was not capable of raising me. She was not selfish. She was not a coward. And she was a better person than most.

Obviously, this scenario is different from the one onscreen (I think Will was un-wise, too) , but it does boil down to the fact that there is a deep prejudice in this world against adopted families and that's very sad.
I'm adopted as well and that is usually the first question people ask me too when they find out. Crazy, isn't it? I think it is a curiosity as much as it is ignorance. Once in a while someone will use the correct term...biological parents...but for the most part I think people are just trying to wrap their head around it.


As far as no one coming before Ari...when my husband & I did our Pre-Cana counseling we both answered that children come before spouse. Well we were surprised to learn that the Catholic church would put the spouse before the children because a good marriage is the basis for a strong foundation for family & children. Obviously, they pointed out exceptions, but the gist was never forget that your spouse needs affirmation of your love just as much as your children.
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Kimba73
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Angelsmile
Jun 3 2014, 01:34 AM
Rosebud
Jun 2 2014, 04:57 PM
Elvis DiMera, attorney at law (haha), proved today that he's unethical and should be disbarred. He had no business jumping in to represent Gabi knowing that he would be advising her in a case which he is eminently involved and having selfish motives to advise her to confess.
He actually advised her not to confess. He told he initially they could beat the case. She said she did not want anyone else to get blamed and he said cases go unsolved all the time. She continued to insist so he told her to go for mitigating circumstances. She explained that she was not willing to get everyone in trouble that had helped her and once again insisted she confess. He then asked her to trust him to get the best deal for her. There could have been a conflict of interest, but Gabi had already made up her mind what she wanted to do. EJ was willing to fight a not guilty plea, but it is not what Gabi wanted. The only direction he tried to guide her was in pleading not guilty.
EJ only backed off when Gabi reminded him what could happen to Sami/Kate/Will/Sonny (EJ too) if it went to court and she didn't confess. I hardly consider him to be noble in this situation.
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Angelsmile


Kimba73
Jun 3 2014, 10:34 AM
Angelsmile
Jun 3 2014, 01:34 AM
Rosebud
Jun 2 2014, 04:57 PM
Elvis DiMera, attorney at law (haha), proved today that he's unethical and should be disbarred. He had no business jumping in to represent Gabi knowing that he would be advising her in a case which he is eminently involved and having selfish motives to advise her to confess.
He actually advised her not to confess. He told he initially they could beat the case. She said she did not want anyone else to get blamed and he said cases go unsolved all the time. She continued to insist so he told her to go for mitigating circumstances. She explained that she was not willing to get everyone in trouble that had helped her and once again insisted she confess. He then asked her to trust him to get the best deal for her. There could have been a conflict of interest, but Gabi had already made up her mind what she wanted to do. EJ was willing to fight a not guilty plea, but it is not what Gabi wanted. The only direction he tried to guide her was in pleading not guilty.
EJ only backed off when Gabi reminded him what could happen to Sami/Kate/Will/Sonny (EJ too) if it went to court and she didn't confess. I hardly consider him to be noble in this situation.
I am not sure nobility was even called for in this situation. Simple concern and caring were enough and EJ exhibited those. EJ did not back off at all he was consistently trying to help Gabi. Even during the confession he tried to prevent her from incriminating herself even more. He tried to stop her when she began telling the tale about Melanie. He repeatedly reminded Hope and the DA that the confession was only in effect once they had an agreed upon plea agreement. I do not meant to sound combative, but EJ does plenty in actuality to be blamed for to try to blame him for Gabi going to jail is excessive.
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Sweet and Salty


Honeybees
Jun 2 2014, 09:49 PM
As a card-carrying Daniel hater, I would love it if there was a significant change in the writing for him so I would stop hating him so much. I mean, I find it comic that just when I think it looks like it's going to turn around, the writers do the opposite of what it would take to win me over. I do try and train all my ire on the writers but lately SC's Daniel Smash emoting has grated as well. But I truly believe that if they dialed down the propping and actually wrote Daniel as a kind of controlling jerk but who meant well, which is how I think SC plays him, I think a significant part of the Daniel hate would die down.
Awesome post. This is exactly how I feel as well. Bravo! He's written to be endearing and savior of Salemites everywhere!

He acts like a huffy puffy controlling manhandler (womanhandler).

Write him as he is or act like you're meant to be written, and all will be great in my Daniel ego!
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Kimba73
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Angelsmile
Jun 3 2014, 10:53 AM
Kimba73
Jun 3 2014, 10:34 AM
Angelsmile
Jun 3 2014, 01:34 AM
Rosebud
Jun 2 2014, 04:57 PM
Elvis DiMera, attorney at law (haha), proved today that he's unethical and should be disbarred. He had no business jumping in to represent Gabi knowing that he would be advising her in a case which he is eminently involved and having selfish motives to advise her to confess.
He actually advised her not to confess. He told he initially they could beat the case. She said she did not want anyone else to get blamed and he said cases go unsolved all the time. She continued to insist so he told her to go for mitigating circumstances. She explained that she was not willing to get everyone in trouble that had helped her and once again insisted she confess. He then asked her to trust him to get the best deal for her. There could have been a conflict of interest, but Gabi had already made up her mind what she wanted to do. EJ was willing to fight a not guilty plea, but it is not what Gabi wanted. The only direction he tried to guide her was in pleading not guilty.
EJ only backed off when Gabi reminded him what could happen to Sami/Kate/Will/Sonny (EJ too) if it went to court and she didn't confess. I hardly consider him to be noble in this situation.
I am not sure nobility was even called for in this situation. Simple concern and caring were enough and EJ exhibited those. EJ did not back off at all he was consistently trying to help Gabi. Even during the confession he tried to prevent her from incriminating herself even more. He tried to stop her when she began telling the tale about Melanie. He repeatedly reminded Hope and the DA that the confession was only in effect once they had an agreed upon plea agreement. I do not meant to sound combative, but EJ does plenty in actuality to be blamed for to try to blame him for Gabi going to jail is excessive.
I am hardly blaming EJ for Gabi going to jail. I am just saying his motives are not all altruistic. I also think that he wasn't quite sure where Gabi was going at first when she started to talk about the Andrew stuff. He relaxed a little once he realized what she was actually admitting to. He could also have been worried about the repercussions for Chad if she said too much.

Obviously Gabi had her mind made up and EJ wasn't going to change it either way. I think he did the best he could to protect her, without sacrificing everyone else.
Edited by Kimba73, Jun 3 2014, 01:22 PM.
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Will&Sonny


Kimba73
Jun 3 2014, 01:19 PM
Angelsmile
Jun 3 2014, 10:53 AM
Kimba73
Jun 3 2014, 10:34 AM
Angelsmile
Jun 3 2014, 01:34 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deep
EJ only backed off when Gabi reminded him what could happen to Sami/Kate/Will/Sonny (EJ too) if it went to court and she didn't confess. I hardly consider him to be noble in this situation.
I am not sure nobility was even called for in this situation. Simple concern and caring were enough and EJ exhibited those. EJ did not back off at all he was consistently trying to help Gabi. Even during the confession he tried to prevent her from incriminating herself even more. He tried to stop her when she began telling the tale about Melanie. He repeatedly reminded Hope and the DA that the confession was only in effect once they had an agreed upon plea agreement. I do not meant to sound combative, but EJ does plenty in actuality to be blamed for to try to blame him for Gabi going to jail is excessive.
I am hardly blaming EJ for Gabi going to jail. I am just saying his motives are not all altruistic. I also think that he wasn't quite sure where Gabi was going at first when she started to talk about the Andrew stuff. He relaxed a little once he realized what she was actually admitting to. He could also have been worried about the repercussions for Chad if she said too much.

Obviously Gabi had her mind made up and EJ wasn't going to change it either way. I think he did the best he could to protect her, without sacrificing everyone else.
So...I've read most, if not all, of this thread. I don't think I've seen anyone else mention what I'm about to say, so...am I really the only one who got the impression that E.J. had coached Gabi on what to say in her statement? Don't get me wrong -- I'm not blaming E.J. for Gabi's predicament. I don't particularly care for him, but I don't think that he did anything wrong there, and he had just as much of a right to be representing Gabi as Hope had to be leading the investigation in the first place. Realistically, neither of them should have been involved, but if Hope's allowed to skirt around that, then E.J. should be, as well -- fair is fair.

Anyway, I digress. As I was saying...during Monday's episode, Gabi was insistent on confessing to the crime. E.J. tried to stop her, but she didn't want him to deflect the blame onto anyone else or let the case go unsolved. She also didn't want to implicate any of the people who had tried to help her. She was determined to take sole responsibility for the crime, and she wasn't going to tell the police about any mitigating circumstances that could have cast her in a more sympathetic light. She just wanted to unburden her conscience and prevent Will from going to prison for a crime he hadn't actually committed. And, of course, Hope had already found evidence that linked Gabi to the crime, anyway, so Gabi had already been busted either way.

So, E.J. told Gabi that if she was really determined to confess, he wanted her to at least trust him to use her confession to get her the best possible plea bargain. The next time we saw her, she was alone, indicating that some time had passed -- we don't know what happened during that time. E.J. then returned to the room with Hope and the district attorney and alluded to a plea bargain he already knew the terms of -- how could he have properly negotiated a plea bargain for her unless he had known exactly what she was about to tell the police? Gabi then proceeded to make her statement. When the district attorney asked why Nick had believed that he had possessed the power to send Gabi to prison, E.J. weakly started to advise Gabi to plead the fifth before quickly shutting up the moment that Gabi opened her mouth to respond. When have we known E.J. to back down that easily when he doesn't want to?

I think the point was that E.J. had coached Gabi into telling the police about Andrew because he had known that doing so would have still provided her with mitigating circumstances and allowed her to cast herself in a sympathetic light while only incriminating herself. It was the best of both worlds -- she still gets the best possible defense (really, aside from being blatantly specific about the fact that Nick had tried to rape her, there's not much of a functional difference between the story she told the police and the whole story, from a defensive standpoint -- both stories show that Nick was controlling her, both stories show that he was blackmailing her, both stories show that he was obsessed with her, both stories show that he had gotten "physical" with her, both stories show that she had ultimately killed him to stop the cycle; if anything, the one she chose to tell actually casts her in a better light because it doesn't add what could be spun as a second attempt to kill him to the list) and she still manages to protect everyone she loves. I don't think Gabi thought of that entirely on her own -- I think it was all planned out between her and E.J. during a private discussion we didn't actually get to see.
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