Hello, soap fans -- and welcome to Daytime Royalty!
For those unfamiliar, we are an uncensored community for fans and lovers of the daytime genre. We have a no-holds-barred atmosphere in regards to the shows, writers, actors etc. but we do not allow member suffering succotash in any form.
You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free.
She stalked them for the express purpose of overhearing them so that she would be able to loophole her way out of being bound to respect Gabi's confidentiality. I stand by my assessment that what she did was borderline unethical, if not blatantly so.
How does that make it unethical? She saw them talking at the square, the two people Gabi had just said conspired and manipulated her into covering up a murder, one of them is her daughter. She then followed them when they snuck off to talk in private, to see what they were up to and confronted them. That has nothing to do with Gabi as far as we know. Because Marlena's feelings aren't shown.
It doesn't make it unethical as much it makes her seem conflicted and a little desperate to ask Sami what the hell she was doing.
I think it's pushing the boundaries, but I'm glad that's how it happened. But if they were going to bother to have it happen, I wish they'd have done a better job with the exchange. Sami told EJ about it, though, and he totally could have used that against her. I kind of wish he would because at least it'd be a story.
This reminds me: When EJ advised Gabi to confide in Marlena, I thought he was encouraging her to tell Marlena what happened at the river. I was surprised when he was shocked that Marlena knew everything. I was thinking that Sami would go running to EJ to tell him that Marlena knew, and that EJ would be forced to admit that he made it happen.
Suggestion: Instead of the debate of the word stalking ...
How about we say that Marlena overheard Sami and Kate standing and talking -- and was able to tell they were referring to rivergate even though they weren't giving details. And then ... a little later .... the scene changed to Kate and Sami sitting on a bench talking more intensely about rivergate ... but ... .... bad editing caused the viewers to *not* see how/why Marlena arrived ... -- but regardless of how/why she was there ... Marlena nevertheless was standing in the background behind Sami and Kate while they sat and talked on the bench.
That is what we saw happen -- who was where, without assigning motivations.
The reason for the transition between the first location and the second is up for debate, so I'll avoid that here.
Perhaps Marlena intentionally followed and intentionally eavesdropped -- or perhaps Marlena just happened to come upon them and tried to be polite and not interrupt -- or something in between ... But regardless of which of those it was ... Marlena *knew* she was listening to something that Gabi had mentioned in confidence.
Now for my opinion: In my opinion, as soon as Marlena realized what Kami was discussing, she should have walked away.
Will&Sonny
Jun 11 2014, 05:25 PM
My problem with this (not with you for suggesting it, but with the idea itself) is that it implies that we can only decide that something has happened on the show if dialogue specifically states that it is happening. The camera panned to Marlena as Sami and Kate walked away for a reason. Deidre Hall played it as if Marlena was suspicious and planned to follow them for a reason. The next scene was of Sami and Kate arriving at the secluded section of the town square, with Marlena a few seconds behind them, for a reason. Deidre was still playing it as if Marlena was in pursuit of them for a reason. The writers had Marlena stick around and eavesdrop at that point for a reason. Deidre played it as if Marlena were trying to hide her presence from Sami and Kate for a reason. Everything happened for a reason. Are we not allowed to decide what that reason was just because it was never explained in dialogue?
As I recall, earlier in this thread, several people praised Kristian Alfonso's wordless expressions during Gabi's conversation with Julie. This sort of suggestion implies that we have to ignore those expressions because there's no way to "prove" what they meant. If that's the case, we might as well just be reading transcripts instead of watching a television show that involves acting and directing choices as well as dialogue.
Oh I agree with you. I was just trying to avoid the debate about the word stalking ... and then I got a bit extreme about avoiding any nuance.
Oh, Will&Sonny I forgot I wanted to comment about your statement about how would Marlena's patient feel if they knew that she was breaking the confidentiality of their convo. I have wondered why on earth Gabi told Marlena, who she knows is Sami's mother and Ari's great grandmother, about the incident. Did she really think she should tell Marlena of all people? Another idiot heard from I guess. :facepalm:
Maybe she assumed that since Marlena stepped in and agreed to counsel her, that Marlena would be professional enough to handle it. Gabi was suffering and she needed to unburden herself and if Marlena wasn't up for hearing things that would affect her family, she should have stayed home.
How could Marlena ever have guessed what Gabi was going to reveal to her? Again, Gabi shouldn't have burdened Marlena with that. She should have requested that Marlena recommend someone.
Oh, Will&Sonny I forgot I wanted to comment about your statement about how would Marlena's patient feel if they knew that she was breaking the confidentiality of their convo. I have wondered why on earth Gabi told Marlena, who she knows is Sami's mother and Ari's great grandmother, about the incident. Did she really think she should tell Marlena of all people? Another idiot heard from I guess. :facepalm:
Because she foolishly believed that Marlena was an ethical, professional psychiatrist who could be trusted to keep the conversation between the two of them? I guess Gabi and I both missed the memo that said that confidentiality agreements only apply to secrets that don't involve family members.
Oh, and Gabi was hesitant to discuss the matter with Marlena at first, until Marlena assured her that anything that she said would stay between the two of them. :whistling:
Right, and Marlena could read Gabi's mind and knew that she was going to reveal something horrendous about her daughter? Again, Gabi should have thought it out a bit. And Marlena hasn't gone and reported this, so what's the big deal? Again, Sami and Kate are idiots for running their big mouths in public.
She stalked them for the express purpose of overhearing them so that she would be able to loophole her way out of being bound to respect Gabi's confidentiality. I stand by my assessment that what she did was borderline unethical, if not blatantly so.
How does that make it unethical? She saw them talking at the square, the two people Gabi had just said conspired and manipulated her into covering up a murder, one of them is her daughter. She then followed them when they snuck off to talk in private, to see what they were up to and confronted them. That has nothing to do with Gabi as far as we know. Because Marlena's feelings aren't shown.
It doesn't make it unethical as much it makes her seem conflicted and a little desperate to ask Sami what the hell she was doing.
What was unethical was that she confirmed what Gabi said to her. She had just followed/stalked Sami and Kate and listened to their conversation so she really did not even need to do that. She had heard it all for herself and knew that they were lying when they tried to deny what happened.
Marlena confirmed it??? How was she responsible for those two idiots running around town blabbing about what they did?
Suggestion: Instead of the debate of the word stalking ...
How about we say that Marlena overheard Sami and Kate standing and talking -- and was able to tell they were referring to rivergate even though they weren't giving details. And then ... a little later .... the scene changed to Kate and Sami sitting on a bench talking more intensely about rivergate ... but ... .... bad editing caused the viewers to *not* see how/why Marlena arrived ... -- but regardless of how/why she was there ... Marlena nevertheless was standing in the background behind Sami and Kate while they sat and talked on the bench.
That is what we saw happen -- who was where, without assigning motivations.
The reason for the transition between the first location and the second is up for debate, so I'll avoid that here.
Perhaps Marlena intentionally followed and intentionally eavesdropped -- or perhaps Marlena just happened to come upon them and tried to be polite and not interrupt -- or something in between ... But regardless of which of those it was ... Marlena *knew* she was listening to something that Gabi had mentioned in confidence.
Now for my opinion: In my opinion, as soon as Marlena realized what Kami was discussing, she should have walked away.
I disagree. It was a public place and she wasn't doing anything to force them to talk loud enough for someone to hear what they were saying. How is hearing something being unethical? Unethical would be for her to TELL someone about what Gabi told her.
Oh, Will&Sonny I forgot I wanted to comment about your statement about how would Marlena's patient feel if they knew that she was breaking the confidentiality of their convo. I have wondered why on earth Gabi told Marlena, who she knows is Sami's mother and Ari's great grandmother, about the incident. Did she really think she should tell Marlena of all people? Another idiot heard from I guess. :facepalm:
Maybe she assumed that since Marlena stepped in and agreed to counsel her, that Marlena would be professional enough to handle it. Gabi was suffering and she needed to unburden herself and if Marlena wasn't up for hearing things that would affect her family, she should have stayed home.
How could Marlena ever have guessed what Gabi was going to reveal to her? Again, Gabi shouldn't have burdened Marlena with that. She should have requested that Marlena recommend someone.
Marlena is an experienced psychiatrist, I am sure she heard everything under the sun. She should've known this posed a huge conflict for her and recommended someone else.
Instead, she assured Gabi confidentiality then she broke that confidentiality.
If I was counseling someone who sexually assaulted someone and that person disclosed to me that my friend/or relative was involved by covering up the crime or something. The friend/relative comes to me and wants to discuss the matter, I should immediately say that "I cannot talk to you about this." Period. Anything else puts you in an ethically murky place. You can judge that person all you want but you cannot discuss the matter (or anything relating to it) or you're breaching confidentiality.
Oh, Will&Sonny I forgot I wanted to comment about your statement about how would Marlena's patient feel if they knew that she was breaking the confidentiality of their convo. I have wondered why on earth Gabi told Marlena, who she knows is Sami's mother and Ari's great grandmother, about the incident. Did she really think she should tell Marlena of all people? Another idiot heard from I guess. :facepalm:
Maybe she assumed that since Marlena stepped in and agreed to counsel her, that Marlena would be professional enough to handle it. Gabi was suffering and she needed to unburden herself and if Marlena wasn't up for hearing things that would affect her family, she should have stayed home.
How could Marlena ever have guessed what Gabi was going to reveal to her? Again, Gabi shouldn't have burdened Marlena with that. She should have requested that Marlena recommend someone.
Marlena is an experienced psychiatrist, I am sure she heard everything under the sun. She should've known this posed a huge conflict for her and recommended someone else.
Instead, she assured Gabi confidentiality then she broke that confidentiality.
If I was counseling someone who sexually assaulted someone and that person disclosed to me that my friend/or relative was involved by covering up the crime or something. The friend/relative comes to me and wants to discuss the matter, I should immediately say that "I cannot talk to you about this." Period. Anything else puts you in an ethically murky place. You can judge that person all you want but you cannot discuss the matter (or anything relating to it) or you're breaching confidentiality.
But Marlena overheard two people in a public place, she didn't jump out and surprise Kate and Sami before they opened their mouths and tell them she knew what they were about to say to each other. And again, how on earth would Marlena even begin to predict the horror story Gabi was about to tell her about her own daughter? Being an experienced psychiatrist isn't the same as being psychic.
Marlena did confirm it. I hated that line. They could have done the entire scene with Marlena divulging nothing. Marlena said "So she said" about Gabi, when Sami said something about what Gabi revealed. That one line ruined it for me.
How does that make it unethical? She saw them talking at the square, the two people Gabi had just said conspired and manipulated her into covering up a murder, one of them is her daughter. She then followed them when they snuck off to talk in private, to see what they were up to and confronted them. That has nothing to do with Gabi as far as we know. Because Marlena's feelings aren't shown.
It doesn't make it unethical as much it makes her seem conflicted and a little desperate to ask Sami what the hell she was doing.
What was unethical was that she confirmed what Gabi said to her. She had just followed/stalked Sami and Kate and listened to their conversation so she really did not even need to do that. She had heard it all for herself and knew that they were lying when they tried to deny what happened.
Marlena confirmed it??? How was she responsible for those two idiots running around town blabbing about what they did?
Yes, Marlena confirmed that Gabi had told her about the river incident. They were denying it happened and she said "She said it" in reference to Gabi. The point I was making was that Marlena could have simply said "I heard you talking" in response to their denials. It was unethical to reveal that she knew they were lying because of Gabi.
I did not make any comment about her being responsible for Kate and Sami "running around town blabbing about what they did" so I have no response to that.
How could Marlena ever have guessed what Gabi was going to reveal to her? Again, Gabi shouldn't have burdened Marlena with that. She should have requested that Marlena recommend someone.
Marlena is an experienced psychiatrist, I am sure she heard everything under the sun. She should've known this posed a huge conflict for her and recommended someone else.
Instead, she assured Gabi confidentiality then she broke that confidentiality.
If I was counseling someone who sexually assaulted someone and that person disclosed to me that my friend/or relative was involved by covering up the crime or something. The friend/relative comes to me and wants to discuss the matter, I should immediately say that "I cannot talk to you about this." Period. Anything else puts you in an ethically murky place. You can judge that person all you want but you cannot discuss the matter (or anything relating to it) or you're breaching confidentiality.
But Marlena overheard two people in a public place, she didn't jump out and surprise Kate and Sami before they opened their mouths and tell them she knew what they were about to say to each other. And again, how on earth would Marlena even begin to predict the horror story Gabi was about to tell her about her own daughter? Being an experienced psychiatrist isn't the same as being psychic.
Whether Marlena could know what Gabi was going to tell her or not is not the issue. She is a psychiatrist, she is trained and experienced in hearing all sorts of horror stories, and her job is to maintain confidentiality. Her responsibility to fulfill the duties of her job do not disappear if there is a conflict, she thinks it is too hard, or she overhears a conversation about information she learned confidentially. She can talk about what she overheard two people talking about in public, but there should be NO mention of anything she heard in confidence. Ideally there should not even be a hint that she has even been spoken to in confidence. In ALL cases she has to maintain confidentiality, unless she has prior knowledge of a crime about to take place. She did not do her job, she failed to maintain confidentiality. Not only do they know she spoke with Gabi (which she could not avoid), but they know what Gabi talked to her about and from her own mouth.
If she did confirm it it was already out of the bag since she heard them talking, so I still don't really get what the big deal is or how it was unethical. She wasn't telling them anything they didn't already know and she wasn't revealing it to the authorities. Kate and Sami were the ones involved. Confirming it to them doesn't mean anything really. Should she have run away, I suppose. Now, if she runs to the cops and tells them What Gabi told her, then she's being unethical, IMO.
I wonder if they'll even go any further with this, or if the river incident will ever be revealed to the rest of Salem. Maybe it was just TomSell's way to give Marlena something to do and to give them another reason to let other characters bash her without her getting a chance to defend herself... Sami getting another chance to bring up her sad sad loveless childhood.
Marlena is an experienced psychiatrist, I am sure she heard everything under the sun. She should've known this posed a huge conflict for her and recommended someone else.
Instead, she assured Gabi confidentiality then she broke that confidentiality.
If I was counseling someone who sexually assaulted someone and that person disclosed to me that my friend/or relative was involved by covering up the crime or something. The friend/relative comes to me and wants to discuss the matter, I should immediately say that "I cannot talk to you about this." Period. Anything else puts you in an ethically murky place. You can judge that person all you want but you cannot discuss the matter (or anything relating to it) or you're breaching confidentiality.
But Marlena overheard two people in a public place, she didn't jump out and surprise Kate and Sami before they opened their mouths and tell them she knew what they were about to say to each other. And again, how on earth would Marlena even begin to predict the horror story Gabi was about to tell her about her own daughter? Being an experienced psychiatrist isn't the same as being psychic.
Whether Marlena could know what Gabi was going to tell her or not is not the issue. She is a psychiatrist, she is trained and experienced in hearing all sorts of horror stories, and her job is to maintain confidentiality. Her responsibility to fulfill the duties of her job do not disappear if there is a conflict, she thinks it is too hard, or she overhears a conversation about information she learned confidentially. She can talk about what she overheard two people talking about in public, but there should be NO mention of anything she heard in confidence. Ideally there should not even be a hint that she has even been spoken to in confidence. In ALL cases she has to maintain confidentiality, unless she has prior knowledge of a crime about to take place. She did not do her job, she failed to maintain confidentiality. Not only do they know she spoke with Gabi (which she could not avoid), but they know what Gabi talked to her about and from her own mouth.
I only brought up the thing about Gabi choosing to tell Marlena something about Sami because I thought it was interesting, not that it had anything to do with what happened later with Sami and Kate.
If she did confirm it it was already out of the bag since she heard them talking, so I still don't really get what the big deal is or how it was unethical. She wasn't telling them anything they didn't already know and she wasn't revealing it to the authorities. Kate and Sami were the ones involved. Confirming it to them doesn't mean anything really. Should she have run away, I suppose. Now, if she runs to the cops and tells them What Gabi told her, then she's being unethical, IMO.
I wonder if they'll even go any further with this, or if the river incident will ever be revealed to the rest of Salem. Maybe it was just TomSell's way to give Marlena something to do and to give them another reason to let other characters bash her without her getting a chance to defend herself... Sami getting another chance to bring up her sad sad loveless childhood.
Marlena could have stayed and listened, she could have confronted them about what she heard, she could have even ran to Hope and said "I heard Kate and Sami talking and they said....", unfortunately what she did was tell them that she heard about the river incident from Gabi, and that is unethical. It is against the rules. It was wrong.
How could Marlena ever have guessed what Gabi was going to reveal to her? Again, Gabi shouldn't have burdened Marlena with that. She should have requested that Marlena recommend someone.
Marlena is an experienced psychiatrist, I am sure she heard everything under the sun. She should've known this posed a huge conflict for her and recommended someone else.
Instead, she assured Gabi confidentiality then she broke that confidentiality.
If I was counseling someone who sexually assaulted someone and that person disclosed to me that my friend/or relative was involved by covering up the crime or something. The friend/relative comes to me and wants to discuss the matter, I should immediately say that "I cannot talk to you about this." Period. Anything else puts you in an ethically murky place. You can judge that person all you want but you cannot discuss the matter (or anything relating to it) or you're breaching confidentiality.
But Marlena overheard two people in a public place, she didn't jump out and surprise Kate and Sami before they opened their mouths and tell them she knew what they were about to say to each other. And again, how on earth would Marlena even begin to predict the horror story Gabi was about to tell her about her own daughter? Being an experienced psychiatrist isn't the same as being psychic.
Marlena got out of Gabi's interrogation room and said (smugly, I might add) to Sami: Do you have something to tell me. That's the first infraction. Then she eavesdropped and then followed Sami and Kate from HTS to the park for the sole purpose of listening to their conversation. All of this was unethical and put her professional reputation in a bad place. Then to make things worse, when Sami said to her "Didn't Gabi tell you we we're helping her?" she confirmed that. If I am not mistaken she made at least two confirmations.
Going back to the beginning, Marlena doesn't need to be a psychic to know that counseling the mother of her great-granddaughter who just murdered her grandson's cousin poses a huge conflict of interest. Any psychiatrist worth her salt will know that's a big no-no.
And all the Dimera actors separately decided to do it? ^o)
The inconsistency can be explained by there being more than one script writer. There's also at least one script writer who thinks younger relatives should use titles to refer to older relatives and others who don't.
Whether itīs on the actors or the writers I think EJ calling Sami Samantha is an Ejami thing in the same way as John calling Marlena doc or Bo hope Fancy Face is their thing. I think it makes the women feel special.
Except it's not really just an EJ thing. Stefano, Tony, sometimes John and even Nicole on occasions call her Samantha.
Although admittedly Nicole usually does that when she is mocking EJ.
Oh and Roman calls doc doc too.
EJ is the only one that Sami been in relationship with who those it though. I think EJ started to call Sami Samantha because he liked the name better, but then the writers have expanded on it and turned it into a Dimera thing and have both him and Stefano call other characters with full names too. Unless Stefano use to do it before EJ but either way I donīt think EJ started to call Sami Samantha just because he is a Dimera. I canīt remember EJ calling other people with their full names from the beginning he just seemed to do it with Sami at first.
Nicole said when EJ asked her if Sami had Sydney after finding out she was his daughter - yes she is with Sami your precious Samantha so itīs something negative to Nicole but not to EJ. He is inlove/obssessed with his Samantha.
I think John calling Sami Samantha sometimes is being formal though but not rude maybe it makes since they are not that close, and Samantha is Samiīs real name so itīs not like EJ has exclusive rights to it.
I checked and EJ did call Will William in 2007, but they werenīt close then so it make sense. I think whether or not itīs rude is a matter of intentions though and in EJīs case I donīt think he means to be rude.
Oh, Will&Sonny I forgot I wanted to comment about your statement about how would Marlena's patient feel if they knew that she was breaking the confidentiality of their convo. I have wondered why on earth Gabi told Marlena, who she knows is Sami's mother and Ari's great grandmother, about the incident. Did she really think she should tell Marlena of all people? Another idiot heard from I guess. :facepalm:
Maybe she assumed that since Marlena stepped in and agreed to counsel her, that Marlena would be professional enough to handle it. Gabi was suffering and she needed to unburden herself and if Marlena wasn't up for hearing things that would affect her family, she should have stayed home.
How could Marlena ever have guessed what Gabi was going to reveal to her? Again, Gabi shouldn't have burdened Marlena with that. She should have requested that Marlena recommend someone.
She didn't have to guess what Gabi was going to say. When she walked into that room she knew she was going to hear about things that affected her great granddaughter, simply because of the fact that she was talking to that child's mother. The only mistake Gabi made was trusting Marlena. Marlena is an intelligent adult who's responsible for her own actions and capable of making her own decisions. Rafe, for example, had no way of knowing that his sister killed Nick, but the man still had enough self awareness to realize he was too close to the situation to feel comfortable getting professionally involved. If someone like Rafe has the common sense to do that, I know Marlena does.
I missed her confirming it. That's definitely unethical. I think the other stuff is just pushing the boundaries, but confirming it isn't even debatably within professional ethical boundaries.