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Just Curious; no longer watching
Topic Started: Dec 15 2015, 08:46 PM (10,126 Views)
DrewHamilton
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Currently, I'm loving the show. Haven't been this much invested in the show in 8 or so years. However, there was a time where I just couldn't watch anymore. I wasn't particularly a fan of any of TomSell's last three years of stories. I found myself unable to watch most of 2015, though. Especially when I found out HigGriff were coming on board as the new writers. I figured, what's the point? I stopped watching episodes, all together. I still visited the boards though. It allowed me to keep up to date on what was going on, and it allowed me to get involved in conversation that I could partake in without actually having to watch the show. I think that might be what some people who claim they're not watching anymore are doing. While they claim to not be watching the show (and I think some are actually watching and just like to bitch, LOL), they still want to be involved in some aspect, maybe because DAYS has been a part of their lives and it's hard to let go of things completely sometimes.
Edited by DrewHamilton, Dec 16 2015, 10:45 AM.
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esp13
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I've always believed that if you don't find the show entertaining in any way, then you shouldn't watch. I don't think anybody has an obligation to watch a show they don't like out of some kind of loyalty. My only issue is that if you say you aren't watching and then tell me how bad the stories are, I'm gonna give a little side eye. Recaps are great, but they can't capture everything going on and my philosophy is that if you aren't watching, you don't get to bitch about it.

What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
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DrewHamilton
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esp13
Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
:wub:
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Will&Sonny


esp13
Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
I'm speaking only for myself here, of course, but, just to be clear, I was complaining back when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing the show, too. All of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.

In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.

So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
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LuvingLumi
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Come on Ron, We are counting on YOU !!

Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM
esp13
Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
I'm speaking only for myself here, of course, but, just to be clear, I was complaining back when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing the show, too. All of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.

In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.

So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
Considering what we know about the serial killer story (that it was an idea that Tomsell had and started) how can we be sure it wasn't in THEIR plan to kill Will off? I really do believe that Will was going to be written off regardless of who the writers were, and that it was only a matter of time before they decided to do that....but Tomsell was the one that started the necktie killer storyline (based on what we've heard) and the new writer inherited it and proceeded writing the fall out.
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esp13
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Well, that's why I said "some" and "a lot" not all. :) My comments weren't intended to apply to everybody, just a general sense I get from some of the comments.

And I could say the exact same thing about 90% of Tomsell's stories. With one exception (which they also ruined), there was nothing to get me emotionally invested in the stories or the characters. In fact I actively hated a lot more of the characters then than I do now. So, again, you can't please everyone.
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jennmarie
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Yeah, I'm one of those that would prefer Tomsell and their stories and am not watching. I may not be able to get a full picture just reading recaps, but I basically know what I like and don't and the show they are putting out now, I don't like. Do I EVER watch...yes, but the last one I tried to watch was last Monday and I ff'ded most of it and haven't gotten the interest up to attempt any of the others. I suppose I'll delete them. At some point I won't be giving my opinion of the show anymore I imagine, but until Eric is completely off canvas I'll give my two cents. Whether I watch or not.
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cord08
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I usually stop watching a soap because I'm apathetic or bored by the stories and fall out of the watching habit. I'll maybe miss a week or so of episodes and then forget to catch up because I've lost interest in the stories. I don't think I've ever liked all the stories happening on a soap, but I need at least one or two to hold my interest. Days is providing that right now, so I'm watching every day.

I can only think of one soap where I quit watching because I hated a story turn and/or most of the characters. And that was because I was really only invested in one couple and a few of the characters that revolved around them. That's one of the reasons why I try not to "ship" a couple, or watch just for certain characters. It sucks the fun out of watching, IMO.
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lysie


Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM
esp13
Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
I'm speaking only for myself here, of course, but, just to be clear, I was complaining back when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing the show, too. All of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.

In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.

So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
But...you haven't been posting, so you're obviously not who anyone would be referring to. ;)


I've not watched and posted before, so I get it. It does get a little annoying though when people who aren't watching try to tell you something about the quality of what they're not watching. I don't think Griffley are perfect, but I'd watch them all day every day before I'd watch TomSell again. I'm hoping some of my Griffley woes get fixed when Milstein is added to the mix.
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DJsMommy
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I'm not sure exactly what it would take for me NOT to watch. :blulaugh: I've sat through it all (I did miss some episodes in the late 80's due to school stuff). I watched all of Higley's psycho & jarring crap, MarDar's drab & boring crap, and TomSell's OOC, sleazy, Jonas-worshiping crap. I don't really have any major complaints about writers pre-2008 Higley, because I enjoyed at least 90% of the show before then.

IMO, the show really took a turn into Crapland around the time EJaylor started up. I remember thinking "Wow. This show is getting BAD." Then the last leg of TomSell was even worse than that. 5 days a week seeing and/or hearing about Daniel was the absolute worst the show has ever been. Griffin is just a wonderful breath of fresh air. I have lost a little excitement for the show since Bo is gone, and I miss Nicole, Lucas & Paul like crazy, but I'm still enjoying almost every episode.
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Will&Sonny


lysie
Dec 16 2015, 01:10 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM
esp13
Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
I'm speaking only for myself here, of course, but, just to be clear, I was complaining back when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing the show, too. All of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.

In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.

So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
But...you haven't been posting, so you're obviously not who anyone would be referring to. ;)
Oh, I realize that. Just to be clear, I didn't think I was being called out or anything (like I said before, I'm not that important); I just figured I'd throw in my perspective as someone the quoted part of esp13's post could apply to, at least on some level (e.g., wanting to go back to the previous regime but being fully aware that things weren't perfect then, either).

Actually, I want to go back to McPherson and Ray Thomas, Jr. But I'd take Tomlin and Whitesell over Higley and Griffith in a heartbeat.
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Will&Sonny


LuvingLumi
Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM
esp13
Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
I'm speaking only for myself here, of course, but, just to be clear, I was complaining back when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing the show, too. All of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.

In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.

So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
Considering what we know about the serial killer story (that it was an idea that Tomsell had and started) how can we be sure it wasn't in THEIR plan to kill Will off? I really do believe that Will was going to be written off regardless of who the writers were, and that it was only a matter of time before they decided to do that....but Tomsell was the one that started the necktie killer storyline (based on what we've heard) and the new writer inherited it and proceeded writing the fall out.
I don't think Tomlin and Whitesell were planning to go that far with the story. Granted, I no longer read interviews because I couldn't care less anymore, so it's quite possible that I might have missed something, but, from what I understand, they weren't even necessarily planning to turn it into a serial-killer story, period; they had simply made plans to kill off Serena, and, perhaps, they had planned for a necktie to be the instrument of her murder. Do we even know if they were planning to make Ben the killer?

In any case, the blame has to fall somewhere, and unless I'm given solid evidence to change my mind, I see no reason to let it fall anywhere other than at the feet of the people who were writing the show at the time it happened.

Also, writing Will off isn't the same thing as killing him off. Tomlin and Whitesell could indeed have been planning to write Will out of the show for a while so they could recast the role (along with the role of Sonny, if necessary), but I find it hard to believe they wanted him dead, considering how much they used him (and, more to the point, how quickly he stopped being used under the new regime). I think the new regime simply didn't want to bother putting in the work to fix the damage Tomlin and Whitesell had done to the character, and they wanted an easy target for shock value for what they had decided to turn into a serial-killer storyline. But we'll probably never have a definitive answer, one way or the other.
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lysie


Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 02:56 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM
esp13
Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
I'm speaking only for myself here, of course, but, just to be clear, I was complaining back when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing the show, too. All of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.

In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.

So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
Considering what we know about the serial killer story (that it was an idea that Tomsell had and started) how can we be sure it wasn't in THEIR plan to kill Will off? I really do believe that Will was going to be written off regardless of who the writers were, and that it was only a matter of time before they decided to do that....but Tomsell was the one that started the necktie killer storyline (based on what we've heard) and the new writer inherited it and proceeded writing the fall out.
I don't think Tomlin and Whitesell were planning to go that far with the story. Granted, I no longer read interviews because I couldn't care less anymore, so it's quite possible that I might have missed something, but, from what I understand, they weren't even necessarily planning to turn it into a serial-killer story, period; they had simply made plans to kill off Serena, and, perhaps, they had planned for a necktie to be the instrument of her murder. Do we even know if they were planning to make Ben the killer?

In any case, the blame has to fall somewhere, and unless I'm given solid evidence to change my mind, I see no reason to let it fall anywhere other than at the feet of the people who were writing the show at the time it happened.

Also, writing Will off isn't the same thing as killing him off. Tomlin and Whitesell could indeed have been planning to write Will out of the show for a while so they could recast the role (along with the role of Sonny, if necessary), but I find it hard to believe they wanted him dead, considering how much they used him (and, more to the point, how quickly he stopped being used under the new regime). I think the new regime simply didn't want to bother putting in the work to fix the damage Tomlin and Whitesell had done to the character, and they wanted an easy target for shock value for what they had decided to turn into a serial-killer storyline. But we'll probably never have a definitive answer, one way or the other.
No. They had a planned serial killer story.
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Will&Sonny


lysie
Dec 16 2015, 02:58 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 02:56 PM
LuvingLumi
Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
Will&Sonny
Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM

Quoting limited to 4 levels deepAll of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.

In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.

To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.

So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
Considering what we know about the serial killer story (that it was an idea that Tomsell had and started) how can we be sure it wasn't in THEIR plan to kill Will off? I really do believe that Will was going to be written off regardless of who the writers were, and that it was only a matter of time before they decided to do that....but Tomsell was the one that started the necktie killer storyline (based on what we've heard) and the new writer inherited it and proceeded writing the fall out.
I don't think Tomlin and Whitesell were planning to go that far with the story. Granted, I no longer read interviews because I couldn't care less anymore, so it's quite possible that I might have missed something, but, from what I understand, they weren't even necessarily planning to turn it into a serial-killer story, period; they had simply made plans to kill off Serena, and, perhaps, they had planned for a necktie to be the instrument of her murder. Do we even know if they were planning to make Ben the killer?

In any case, the blame has to fall somewhere, and unless I'm given solid evidence to change my mind, I see no reason to let it fall anywhere other than at the feet of the people who were writing the show at the time it happened.

Also, writing Will off isn't the same thing as killing him off. Tomlin and Whitesell could indeed have been planning to write Will out of the show for a while so they could recast the role (along with the role of Sonny, if necessary), but I find it hard to believe they wanted him dead, considering how much they used him (and, more to the point, how quickly he stopped being used under the new regime). I think the new regime simply didn't want to bother putting in the work to fix the damage Tomlin and Whitesell had done to the character, and they wanted an easy target for shock value for what they had decided to turn into a serial-killer storyline. But we'll probably never have a definitive answer, one way or the other.
No. They had a planned serial killer story.
Ah, okay. Well, I still doubt that Tomlin and Whitesell would have made Will one of the victims (or, at the very least, that there wouldn't have been a catch under their collective pen -- a way for Will to be resurrected later), but it doesn't really matter either way. I'd be just as pissed off regardless of the responsible parties, and I don't despise Higley and Griffith just because I blame them for killing off Will. That's just the biggest reason. Heh.
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IIttu
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LuvingLumi
Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
Considering what we know about the serial killer story (that it was an idea that Tomsell had and started) how can we be sure it wasn't in THEIR plan to kill Will off? I really do believe that Will was going to be written off regardless of who the writers were, and that it was only a matter of time before they decided to do that....but Tomsell was the one that started the necktie killer storyline (based on what we've heard) and the new writer inherited it and proceeded writing the fall out.
That's what I've been wondering, too.. Because TomSell (or someone behind the scenes) clearly wanted Will to be written as an ass, someone really annoying on screen.. Which would (generally) make it easier for the audience to see the character go.
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Drew
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janem
Dec 15 2015, 08:46 PM
And I am curious. I read here about those who seemto brag about no longer watching Days. Reasons given are their favs no longer on show, or unhappy with storylines, or writers, just various things.

So...is the intention to help get the show cancelled? It cannot be to try and get their favs back, or storyline changed. Heck, with filming 6 mos. in advance, whatever is already done.

If Days is cancelled, it means the end. No more fav couple, character, better story for whoever. And ratings are important. So, "no longer watching" has a huge impact, but perhaps not the one intended.

And if, no longer interested in the show, no longer watching, no longer caring, then why continue to visit the boards? I mean no disrespect, I honestly just do not get the thinking/reasoning behind declarations of not watching any more, yet...staying, commenting, etc. among those whose who are watching.
It just seems that contributing to a ratings decline would mean one wants the show gone completely. Again, I mean no disrespect, just want to understand the thinking.

What fucking rubbish is this?!

I stopped watching Days, aside from the odd episode, in 2008. Why? Because it wasn't good anymore. I barely have enough time to keep up with the shows I do enjoy so I sure as hell am not going to subject myself to 5 hours a week of something I don't enjoy.

If or when Days is eventually cancelled it will have absolutely NOTHING to do with me and everything to do with the people who stopped making an enjoyable program.

:soapbox:
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Hugo


It's really weird to blame TomSell for stuff that aired once their names were removed from the credits. Whatever plans they had, Griffley were the ones in charge after that. What airs since August 19th is their responsibiliy, they deserve all the praise and all the blame for it.
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nananana7
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janem
Dec 16 2015, 09:13 AM
Also, I understand that newer TVs have a chip or something inside, which enables ratings people to know what is being watched.

What? No.

The only way they can tell what you watch on television is if you use Tivo;
or if you *voluntarily* have Nielson box that you make an agreement with Nielson to use.
They can also track if you use something called "on demand".

I've never used any of those things, so it doesn't make any difference to the ratings whether I watch or not.
Edited by nananana7, Dec 16 2015, 03:57 PM.
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nananana7
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They can't tell what you watch if you use a DVR
(without the Tivo service).

They can't tell what you watch if you
use the free episodes on NBC.com on a desktop computer.
(watching without an "app").
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Sindacco
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I have watched the show for 20 years, spent money on it, watched favorites come and go. Loved some time periods, hated others, or somwhere in between like now. To give up and just quit watching would be, for myself, extremely anticlimactic.

I'm with it to the end.
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