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Just Curious; no longer watching
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Topic Started: Dec 15 2015, 08:46 PM (10,123 Views)
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Deverauxfan
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Dec 18 2015, 09:02 AM
Post #81
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Bellarke <3
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- Drew
- Dec 18 2015, 03:17 AM
- Deverauxfan
- Dec 17 2015, 07:09 PM
I don't understand trying to get a show cancelled because you think it's bad that you claim you don't watch. Someone stopping watching does not get the show cancelled. Criticizing the show doesn't get the show cancelled. You'd need a massive amount of people, like 10s of thousands all who happen to be metered, to stop watching the show and no one person just dropping the show and complaining on twitter is influencing that. Sorry but some fans just need to get a grip and relax. Differences in opinion and taste are what make us a society, we're not personally taking out your soap because we'd rather be watching something else. Too many people thinking they're network executives because they read a ratings breakdown or read some behind the scenes gossip about a writing regime. (Not directed at at anyone specifically) Just enjoy the show for however long it's on for if you're so inclined and leave the people alone who aren't so inclined. :drunk: That what I said in my post when I wrote that fans don't really have a say in executive decisions. :)
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Deverauxfan
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Dec 18 2015, 09:05 AM
Post #82
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Bellarke <3
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- Hugo
- Dec 18 2015, 03:28 AM
- Deverauxfan
- Dec 17 2015, 07:09 PM
If NBC has something to replace Days with - the show will be cancelled. However, with how they are doing on primetime, I think it's safe to say that come January, Days will be renewed. Fans don't really have a say in that decision.
NBC has been the #1 network in the key demo for a few seasons now. They have strong ratings from Sunday to Wednesday with the NFL, the Voice and the Chicago franchise. But I don't think the network's success in primetime is a bad thing for Days. It's not. I just said that I think Days will be renewed. :shrug:
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lysie
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Dec 18 2015, 09:12 AM
Post #83
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- Drew
- Dec 18 2015, 03:17 AM
- Deverauxfan
- Dec 17 2015, 07:09 PM
I don't understand trying to get a show cancelled because you think it's bad that you claim you don't watch.
Someone stopping watching does not get the show cancelled. Criticizing the show doesn't get the show cancelled. You'd need a massive amount of people, like 10s of thousands all who happen to be metered, to stop watching the show and no one person just dropping the show and complaining on twitter is influencing that. Sorry but some fans just need to get a grip and relax. Differences in opinion and taste are what make us a society, we're not personally taking out your soap because we'd rather be watching something else. Too many people thinking they're network executives because they read a ratings breakdown or read some behind the scenes gossip about a writing regime. (Not directed at at anyone specifically) Just enjoy the show for however long it's on for if you're so inclined and leave the people alone who aren't so inclined. :drunk: Idk why you keep taking it back to ratings discussion, but when someone says there are people trying to get the show cancelled, they're not talking about people criticizing the show. They're talking about the people actively trying to get the show cancelled. Yes, they have to do more than whine. That's beside the point.
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lysie
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Dec 18 2015, 09:18 AM
Post #84
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- JaimeLannister
- Dec 18 2015, 05:10 AM
- dooldooldool
- Dec 17 2015, 08:16 PM
- frivolity
- Dec 17 2015, 05:38 PM
- lysie
- Dec 17 2015, 03:26 PM
... but wanting cancellation for a show you don't watch doesn't make a whole lot of sense. While I get where it's coming from, it's still silly.
I have to disagree. I know that this is going to be the most unpopular opinion, but nevertheless, I would prefer a quality product or nothing at all. It really sucks when you are invested in a show (which many Days fans very much are to lesser or greater extents) and the show is really quite good, but then becomes a shadow of its former self or flat-out laughably awful. It's rather depressing. I for one would rather see it gone than watch or hear about the terrible deterioration of characters and stories that were once well done ... And I'm looking at you Twin Peaks, X-Files, Arrested Development and Seinfeld finale episode (among others)! I really don't like having low expectations and if Days and GH can't get it together (I have no care for nor feelings toward Y&R or B&B), I'd rather see them canceled than continue to become more and more horrible and ruin so many of their formerly rootable and enjoyable characters. Why still read and/or comment on boards? Because you may want to see if anything has changed for the better or if there is any interesting news, or may just want to keep loose ties to something that has been a part of your life for such a long time.
So, in effect, if grandma isn't as exciting and fun and well-put-together as she used to be, toss her out, move away, or marry into a new family. Sounds outrageous, but that's in effect what you are saying. The daily soap is different than some random entertainment moment, at least that's how it has been for many many folks for many many years. For some, it's clearly a disposable moment.
No, that's not effectively being said. It's honestly problematic when a tv show is apparently on par with a family member. It really just comes down to quality vs quantity. If a show you absolutely loved has become beyond repair, it isn't strange to rather have it put out of its misery and remembered for what it once was. I've never felt this way about Days because I do just think its the cousin who needs to get his shit together but there are other shows I've hoped would would call it a day because all its potential has been exhausted. Obviously a consequence of a show ending is unemployment but that would happen at some point or another with any tv show. I do agree actively working to get a show cancelled is wrong (and stupid because fans do not have that power) but that's not the same as just wanting it to end because you hate what its become. I think that argument can work when it's a different type of show, though I do still think it's silly. Cancellation isn't the way to go to preserve a show's memory. Ending on its own terms is. There are definitely shows that should have ended sooner, but that decision should have come sooner from the creative team, not forced by execs.
But for a soap...remember it as it was? When? It's always been ridiculous.
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JaimeLannister
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Dec 18 2015, 09:30 AM
Post #85
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^As I said, I've never wanted Days to be cancelled so it's not as if I wanted it to be remembered for what it was. I used that logic for the shows I've been eager to see the end of. They were all primetime and it was clear the creative team dgaf anymore and were just writing for the sake of writing. If a show is cancelled with enough time to write a decent ending I don't see why it's a problem for execs to make that call.
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lysie
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Dec 18 2015, 09:43 AM
Post #86
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- JaimeLannister
- Dec 18 2015, 09:30 AM
^As I said, I've never wanted Days to be cancelled so it's not as if I wanted it to be remembered for what it was. I used that logic for the shows I've been eager to see the end of. They were all primetime and it was clear the creative team dgaf anymore and were just writing for the sake of writing. If a show is cancelled with enough time to write a decent ending I don't see why it's a problem for execs to make that call. I didn't say it was a problem for execs to make that call. What I said was that that's not the way to preserve a show's memory. When the decision comes from execs, it's usually too late. When the decision comes from the creative team, there's hope. That's not true 100% of the time, but it's generally true. I'm not disagreeing that some shows need to end. I do think soaps are a bit different though.
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thepadange
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Dec 18 2015, 09:48 AM
Post #87
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I'll never understand people wanting shows cancelled. It doesn't make any sense to me. Nobody is forced to watch what they don't like. And it's not that the show people don't like anymore somehow prevents them from watching something else instead. And it's not that the show "is suffering" in any way. As for the memories, it's always a possibility to remember years that were enjoyable, not necessarilly the last years.
And the reality is that when there won't be enough people who like the show enough to watch it, the show will be cancelled. So if it isn't cancelled it means it's doing well enough to be on air.
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Hugo
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Dec 18 2015, 09:56 AM
Post #88
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- Deverauxfan
- Dec 18 2015, 09:05 AM
- Hugo
- Dec 18 2015, 03:28 AM
- Deverauxfan
- Dec 17 2015, 07:09 PM
If NBC has something to replace Days with - the show will be cancelled. However, with how they are doing on primetime, I think it's safe to say that come January, Days will be renewed. Fans don't really have a say in that decision.
NBC has been the #1 network in the key demo for a few seasons now. They have strong ratings from Sunday to Wednesday with the NFL, the Voice and the Chicago franchise. But I don't think the network's success in primetime is a bad thing for Days.
It's not. I just said that I think Days will be renewed. :shrug: When you wrote "with how they are doing on primetime", I assumed you meant NBC is doing poorly in primetime and for that reason Days would be renewed. I don't think NBC is doing poorly in primetime if they are #1. And I also don't think the fate of Days depends on the strength of their primetime lineup, but I don't know for sure.
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JaimeLannister
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Dec 18 2015, 10:05 AM
Post #89
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- thepadange
- Dec 18 2015, 09:48 AM
I'll never understand people wanting shows cancelled. It doesn't make any sense to me. Nobody is forced to watch what they don't like. And it's not that the show people don't like anymore somehow prevents them from watching something else instead. And it's not that the show "is suffering" in any way. As for the memories, it's always a possibility to remember years that were enjoyable, not necessarilly the last years.
And the reality is that when there won't be enough people who like the show enough to watch it, the show will be cancelled. So if it isn't cancelled it means it's doing well enough to be on air. Which is why I said it's quality over quantity.
I don't get why it's such a biggie if someone prefers that a show end because it's dragged on too long. It's simply a fan's opinion and like every other fan opinion, it doesn't affect the shows survival at all.
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Deverauxfan
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Dec 18 2015, 11:07 AM
Post #90
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Bellarke <3
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- Hugo
- Dec 18 2015, 09:56 AM
- Deverauxfan
- Dec 18 2015, 09:05 AM
- Hugo
- Dec 18 2015, 03:28 AM
- Deverauxfan
- Dec 17 2015, 07:09 PM
If NBC has something to replace Days with - the show will be cancelled. However, with how they are doing on primetime, I think it's safe to say that come January, Days will be renewed. Fans don't really have a say in that decision.
NBC has been the #1 network in the key demo for a few seasons now. They have strong ratings from Sunday to Wednesday with the NFL, the Voice and the Chicago franchise. But I don't think the network's success in primetime is a bad thing for Days.
It's not. I just said that I think Days will be renewed. :shrug:
When you wrote "with how they are doing on primetime", I assumed you meant NBC is doing poorly in primetime and for that reason Days would be renewed. I don't think NBC is doing poorly in primetime if they are #1. And I also don't think the fate of Days depends on the strength of their primetime lineup, but I don't know for sure. Okay. :)
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SoapsandDaysfan
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Dec 18 2015, 11:19 AM
Post #91
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- JaimeLannister
- Dec 18 2015, 10:05 AM
- thepadange
- Dec 18 2015, 09:48 AM
I'll never understand people wanting shows cancelled. It doesn't make any sense to me. Nobody is forced to watch what they don't like. And it's not that the show people don't like anymore somehow prevents them from watching something else instead. And it's not that the show "is suffering" in any way. As for the memories, it's always a possibility to remember years that were enjoyable, not necessarilly the last years.
And the reality is that when there won't be enough people who like the show enough to watch it, the show will be cancelled. So if it isn't cancelled it means it's doing well enough to be on air.
Which is why I said it's quality over quantity. I don't get why it's such a biggie if someone prefers that a show end because it's dragged on too long. It's simply a fan's opinion and like every other fan opinion, it doesn't affect the shows survival at all. It's not a biggie. I just don't quite understand that opinion or understand the reasoning behind it. :shrug:
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DJsMommy
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Dec 18 2015, 06:59 PM
Post #92
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- Will&Sonny
- Dec 16 2015, 02:56 PM
- LuvingLumi
- Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
- Will&Sonny
- Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM
- esp13
- Dec 16 2015, 10:41 AM
What I find interesting about this conversation is that some of the folks who say they hate the show now want to go back to a time period when I hated the show and back to writers who I believe basically ruined the show for me. So, if nothing else, it proves that it's probably impossible for the show to please everybody. It also seems that a lot of the complaints about "these writers" is not what they are actually writing, but what they aren't.
I'm speaking only for myself here, of course, but, just to be clear, I was complaining back when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing the show, too. All of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day. In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on. To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing. So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
Considering what we know about the serial killer story (that it was an idea that Tomsell had and started) how can we be sure it wasn't in THEIR plan to kill Will off? I really do believe that Will was going to be written off regardless of who the writers were, and that it was only a matter of time before they decided to do that....but Tomsell was the one that started the necktie killer storyline (based on what we've heard) and the new writer inherited it and proceeded writing the fall out.
I don't think Tomlin and Whitesell were planning to go that far with the story. Granted, I no longer read interviews because I couldn't care less anymore, so it's quite possible that I might have missed something, but, from what I understand, they weren't even necessarily planning to turn it into a serial-killer story, period; they had simply made plans to kill off Serena, and, perhaps, they had planned for a necktie to be the instrument of her murder. Do we even know if they were planning to make Ben the killer? In any case, the blame has to fall somewhere, and unless I'm given solid evidence to change my mind, I see no reason to let it fall anywhere other than at the feet of the people who were writing the show at the time it happened. Also, writing Will off isn't the same thing as killing him off. Tomlin and Whitesell could indeed have been planning to write Will out of the show for a while so they could recast the role (along with the role of Sonny, if necessary), but I find it hard to believe they wanted him dead, considering how much they used him (and, more to the point, how quickly he stopped being used under the new regime). I think the new regime simply didn't want to bother putting in the work to fix the damage Tomlin and Whitesell had done to the character, and they wanted an easy target for shock value for what they had decided to turn into a serial-killer storyline. But we'll probably never have a definitive answer, one way or the other. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any writer need to get permission from Corday/Meng, etc before killing off an important legacy character like Will?
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DJsMommy
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Dec 18 2015, 07:51 PM
Post #93
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- Kallista
- Dec 17 2015, 05:40 PM
I almost never post because I don't really watch anymore (unless watching less than 5 minutes every few months counts as watching) but I still read this board in the hope that somehow I'll want to watch Days again. It is a hard habit to break. I started watching during the summer of 1984 when I was a little kid. This board provides great summaries and comments on the show, often hilarious comments that only a soap fan would understand. Even when my opinion on something is in the minority, I like to read what other people think of Days. Plus, I don't know anyone in real life who still watches Days. A few of my college friends watched back in the 90s and the Last Blast crowd, but no one is still watching. When I have posted something negative, I was venting because it is sad and frustrating that Days got as bad as it did over the last few years. At this point, I don't really post anywhere because I'm not into the current cast or storylines; I hate that they killed Bo and think TPTB could have chosen another route for Bo & Hope.
Days current storylines are not my cup of tea. If I wanted to watch a fashion s/l, I'd watch B&B. I could never get into B&B because of the business oriented s/l. There isn't any reason Days could not do a suspense oriented s/l.
Days has a hard time competing for my attention now that I can choose from hundreds of channels to find a show with the suspense-oriented and often supernatural elements I prefer. Supernatural for one. British imports, tons of films, why watch a lame show that killed off one-half of my original favorite supercouple? I am happy other people are enjoying Days but I'm not watching anymore. Bo & Hope are my favorite too, but with PR not wanting to stay & KA staying, what other route could they have taken besides Bo dying?
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tiff5555
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Dec 20 2015, 05:36 PM
Post #94
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There has been ups and downs with the scenes of 2015, prior when Dena and Josh took over as head writers. Last 2014, after when EJ and Sami left, it was sooo dry and I thought, how will I get through Days. I stood around like I did when Jensen Ackles left Days! It may be dry, but keep intune to the show and you will find something that would pull you back in! :pizza:
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astropastel
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Dec 20 2015, 07:00 PM
Post #95
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- DJsMommy
- Dec 18 2015, 06:59 PM
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- Dec 16 2015, 02:56 PM
- LuvingLumi
- Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
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- Dec 16 2015, 11:54 AM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepAll of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.
In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.
To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.
So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are writing, either. Even before Will was killed off, I had many of the same complaints I have now; in that old "what are your thoughts on the new regime?" thread, I basically said that the writing (dialogue) was, technically, okay -- perhaps even improved -- but there was nothing beneath the surface to get me invested in the stories. Months later, I still stand by that assessment.
Considering what we know about the serial killer story (that it was an idea that Tomsell had and started) how can we be sure it wasn't in THEIR plan to kill Will off? I really do believe that Will was going to be written off regardless of who the writers were, and that it was only a matter of time before they decided to do that....but Tomsell was the one that started the necktie killer storyline (based on what we've heard) and the new writer inherited it and proceeded writing the fall out.
I don't think Tomlin and Whitesell were planning to go that far with the story. Granted, I no longer read interviews because I couldn't care less anymore, so it's quite possible that I might have missed something, but, from what I understand, they weren't even necessarily planning to turn it into a serial-killer story, period; they had simply made plans to kill off Serena, and, perhaps, they had planned for a necktie to be the instrument of her murder. Do we even know if they were planning to make Ben the killer? In any case, the blame has to fall somewhere, and unless I'm given solid evidence to change my mind, I see no reason to let it fall anywhere other than at the feet of the people who were writing the show at the time it happened. Also, writing Will off isn't the same thing as killing him off. Tomlin and Whitesell could indeed have been planning to write Will out of the show for a while so they could recast the role (along with the role of Sonny, if necessary), but I find it hard to believe they wanted him dead, considering how much they used him (and, more to the point, how quickly he stopped being used under the new regime). I think the new regime simply didn't want to bother putting in the work to fix the damage Tomlin and Whitesell had done to the character, and they wanted an easy target for shock value for what they had decided to turn into a serial-killer storyline. But we'll probably never have a definitive answer, one way or the other. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any writer need to get permission from Corday/Meng, etc before killing off an important legacy character like Will?
I think the character of William Horton was killed because the NBC executives or whoever is in charge of public relations are homophobic cowards.
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seanny
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Dec 21 2015, 12:34 PM
Post #96
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- astropastel
- Dec 20 2015, 07:00 PM
- DJsMommy
- Dec 18 2015, 06:59 PM
- Will&Sonny
- Dec 16 2015, 02:56 PM
- LuvingLumi
- Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepAll of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.
In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.
To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.
So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are
I don't think Tomlin and Whitesell were planning to go that far with the story. Granted, I no longer read interviews because I couldn't care less anymore, so it's quite possible that I might have missed something, but, from what I understand, they weren't even necessarily planning to turn it into a serial-killer story, period; they had simply made plans to kill off Serena, and, perhaps, they had planned for a necktie to be the instrument of her murder. Do we even know if they were planning to make Ben the killer? In any case, the blame has to fall somewhere, and unless I'm given solid evidence to change my mind, I see no reason to let it fall anywhere other than at the feet of the people who were writing the show at the time it happened. Also, writing Will off isn't the same thing as killing him off. Tomlin and Whitesell could indeed have been planning to write Will out of the show for a while so they could recast the role (along with the role of Sonny, if necessary), but I find it hard to believe they wanted him dead, considering how much they used him (and, more to the point, how quickly he stopped being used under the new regime). I think the new regime simply didn't want to bother putting in the work to fix the damage Tomlin and Whitesell had done to the character, and they wanted an easy target for shock value for what they had decided to turn into a serial-killer storyline. But we'll probably never have a definitive answer, one way or the other. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any writer need to get permission from Corday/Meng, etc before killing off an important legacy character like Will?
I think the character of William Horton was killed because the NBC executives or whoever is in charge of public relations are homophobic cowards. And they weren't homophobes the five previous years that Will was portrayed as gay? :eyeroll:
I think Will was treated just like any other soap character.....but that was a mistake on the TPTB part given that this was no ordinary role. The way in which he was brutally killed off was just plain horrible and not well thought out at all. TPTB seem to have completely forgotten or ignored the history of violence against gay and lesbian characters on television and film.
I don't think that there was any agenda behind what happened other than GW not working out in the role which in case he should have been replaced.
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Hugo
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Dec 21 2015, 01:41 PM
Post #97
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Homophobic or not, TPTB don't seem to care about the way Will and Sonny's exits were received. They know they have offended some viewers but they haven't addressed it yet. A show that won 4 GLAAD awards should do better than this. It's obvious to me that they turned their back on the gays for whatever reason: I think it was a personal preference from the new writers and also a sudden concern that the gays were driving too many viewers away. Sure they kept one gay character around, Paul, but they give him 5 lines every 20 episodes, it's really lame. We'll see if things get better in 2016 but I'm not holding my breath. At least, one of the persons responsible for all this, Higley, is gone now.
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laurondo
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Dec 21 2015, 07:42 PM
Post #98
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- astropastel
- Dec 20 2015, 07:00 PM
- DJsMommy
- Dec 18 2015, 06:59 PM
- Will&Sonny
- Dec 16 2015, 02:56 PM
- LuvingLumi
- Dec 16 2015, 12:08 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepAll of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.
In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.
To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.
So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are
I don't think Tomlin and Whitesell were planning to go that far with the story. Granted, I no longer read interviews because I couldn't care less anymore, so it's quite possible that I might have missed something, but, from what I understand, they weren't even necessarily planning to turn it into a serial-killer story, period; they had simply made plans to kill off Serena, and, perhaps, they had planned for a necktie to be the instrument of her murder. Do we even know if they were planning to make Ben the killer? In any case, the blame has to fall somewhere, and unless I'm given solid evidence to change my mind, I see no reason to let it fall anywhere other than at the feet of the people who were writing the show at the time it happened. Also, writing Will off isn't the same thing as killing him off. Tomlin and Whitesell could indeed have been planning to write Will out of the show for a while so they could recast the role (along with the role of Sonny, if necessary), but I find it hard to believe they wanted him dead, considering how much they used him (and, more to the point, how quickly he stopped being used under the new regime). I think the new regime simply didn't want to bother putting in the work to fix the damage Tomlin and Whitesell had done to the character, and they wanted an easy target for shock value for what they had decided to turn into a serial-killer storyline. But we'll probably never have a definitive answer, one way or the other. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any writer need to get permission from Corday/Meng, etc before killing off an important legacy character like Will?
I think the character of William Horton was killed because the NBC executives or whoever is in charge of public relations are homophobic cowards. If that were true then he wouldn't have had the story he had. He would've been killed shortly after admitting to everyone he was gay.
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Hugo
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Dec 22 2015, 04:59 AM
Post #99
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- Posts:
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- Member
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- June 5, 2013
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- laurondo
- Dec 21 2015, 07:42 PM
- astropastel
- Dec 20 2015, 07:00 PM
- DJsMommy
- Dec 18 2015, 06:59 PM
- Will&Sonny
- Dec 16 2015, 02:56 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepAll of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.
In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.
To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.
So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they are
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any writer need to get permission from Corday/Meng, etc before killing off an important legacy character like Will?
I think the character of William Horton was killed because the NBC executives or whoever is in charge of public relations are homophobic cowards.
If that were true then he wouldn't have had the story he had. He would've been killed shortly after admitting to everyone he was gay. I think nobody denies the show has done good on that front, the GLAAD awards are there to prove it. But it's not because someone made good actions in the past that they can't do bad actions now or that it excuses them. What happened this year is really shocking, coming from a show that used to be gay-friendly.
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laurondo
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Dec 22 2015, 05:04 AM
Post #100
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- Posts:
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- Hugo
- Dec 22 2015, 04:59 AM
- laurondo
- Dec 21 2015, 07:42 PM
- astropastel
- Dec 20 2015, 07:00 PM
- DJsMommy
- Dec 18 2015, 06:59 PM
Quoting limited to 4 levels deepAll of 2015 has just been absolutely terrible, as far as I'm concerned, and, if we're getting really specific here, I would have stopped watching on January 8th if I'd had any real choice in the matter. But Tomlin and Whitesell, for all their faults, at least had the decency to keep Will alive instead of brutally killing him off for no real reason other than shock value (then basically spitting on his grave with those scenes between Sonny and Paul). They might have spent their part of 2015 systematically destroying Will, but at least they kept him alive. I'd take that over what Griffith and Higley did any day.
In any case, for what it's worth, even speaking objectively (and you can, of course, argue that I'm not capable of doing so, but I think I am, so I'll throw it out there, anyway), I really don't have any interest in anything the writers are writing. I hated the serial killer storyline for obvious reasons, I'm sick of Abby and Chad (who seem to be the only couple the new team is really invested in), the pacing of Bo's story was absolutely terrible, the pacing in general isn't much better, I don't like the direction they seem to be heading in with the teens, I don't like how characters now sometimes randomly pop up in one scene of an episode and aren't seen again the entire hour (such a waste of a day for those actors), the mood of the show is extremely weird ("people just died -- let's have a party!"), Tony has basically taken over Stefano's role (which would work if Stefano weren't still around, but since he is, it just feels wrong to me -- poor Joseph Mascolo basically just sits there most of the time now, doing and saying nothing while another actor speaks for his character)... Well, you get the point. And, while I can't think of any specific examples off the top of my head, the writing itself is just off to me. Characters say things in one episode that contradict things they said in a previous episode (sometimes the previous episode), obvious story beats are being missed or overlooked (J.J. telling Jennifer and Abby about Paige's death, as one classic example), timelines are all messed up...the list goes on and on.
To be fair, the dialogue does still manage to make me laugh occasionally, so there's that, but I honestly can't say that I'm enjoying anything the writers are offering, and I'm certainly not emotionally invested in any of it. Beyond that, I find myself thinking "that doesn't make any sense at all" or "that's not what you said on the last episode..." far more now than I did when Tomlin and Whitesell were writing.
So, yeah -- my main complaint centers around what the new regime isn't writing (or, more precisely, what they wrote to a conclusion that pissed me off more than anything Tomlin and Whitesell ever wrote), but I can honestly say I'm not impressed with what they areSomeone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't any writer need to get permission from Corday/Meng, etc before killing off an important legacy character like Will?
I think the character of William Horton was killed because the NBC executives or whoever is in charge of public relations are homophobic cowards.
If that were true then he wouldn't have had the story he had. He would've been killed shortly after admitting to everyone he was gay.
I think nobody denies the show has done good on that front, the GLAAD awards are there to prove it. But it's not because someone made good actions in the past that they can't do bad actions now or that it excuses them. What happened this year is really shocking, coming from a show that used to be gay-friendly. Yeah, but that person is saying whoever's in charge are homophobic cowards, not that they simply made a bad decision (they did). If they were homophobic, Will wouldn't have become gay to begin with and if he had, he would've been gone long ago.
He was treated pretty fairly up until the dumb decision they made to have him be a victim of Ben's... and I don't know if I'd say they made that decision because they're homophobic.
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