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Thursday, February 11th Episode Discussion
Topic Started: Feb 10 2016, 07:04 PM (10,506 Views)
Kyrai
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esp13
Feb 11 2016, 05:30 PM
I have to give kudos to Stephen Nichols today because he really brought a lot of layers in the scenes. There was guilt, but there was also shame and regret and fear. When Kayla was trying to find a "positive" side, he was so utterly rejecting of that. His comments about how much he hated Ava, how she was poisonous, just dripped with shame and hurt and anger. His talk about wanting to turn back the clock, wanting to make it all different - that was about so much more than just letting Ava back into their lives.

I still wish Steve would have told Kayla the truth, but SN really brought the emotions and layers that make me almost understand why he couldn't. And Ava's message did nothing but convince him that she's not done with them yet. This storyline could have been so much better, but they brought the A game today.

And if Ava's "final destination" comment wasn't a major anvil, I'm going to be totally pissed.
I agree. I felt for Steve today. SN played it so perfectly. It was not a cheating affair. He was abused and is suffering.
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Restless84
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Hamilton
Feb 11 2016, 08:20 PM

I really enjoyed the follow up today for the Hope, Rafe, Andre, Chase and Ciara story. It kept me the most interested.
I found myself really enjoying these stories as well as Jennifer mixing it up with Hope, Ciara, and Chase. I'm not a fan of how they've written Hope and Rafe covering up Stefano's murder, but I'm finding Hope/Rafe vs. Andre entertaining, or at least I did today. They are definitely building to something with Chase and Ciara.
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kay
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Kay

crookedhalo
Feb 11 2016, 03:42 PM
4ever DAYS
Feb 11 2016, 03:36 PM
Steve would do anything to save Kayla is what he proved by raping Ava. Kayla should be grateful to both Steve and Ava.
so he raped Ava??? That's a double standard plus four to the millenniumth power
Steve DID NOT rape her. She forced him to have sex with her in exchange for information on where she was holding Kayla.
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Supergirlx2
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Hamilton
Feb 11 2016, 08:26 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM
lysie
Feb 11 2016, 06:13 PM
So. HOPE'S idea was to take out Andre. Awesome.
Technically, Hope just said they needed to stop Andre. Rafe assumed "by the look in her eye" that she was thinking about killing Andre. lol. Hope's reply wasn't "you're right. that's what I was thinking", it was simply "then give me options". So technically, she didn't vocalize that she thought they should kill Andre. Rafe only assumed that that's what she was thinking. lol.

Let's be honest, though. It's not like Rafe's ideas have turned out all that great. It is, after all, his fault that Andre was able to find Stefano's dead body & has actual justification for going after Hope (& Rafe). And wasn't it Rafe's idea for Hope & the kids to leave town? Their going to the Horton Cabin allowed for Andre to break into her house, find the gun (that he technically can't tie to Stefano's murder, but he doesn't care), & plant the bug.
It's quite obvious you hate all things Rafe in this story, but it's a bit much to lay blame for every plot twist at his feet.
Except that 95% of the plot twists in this story have been his idea (or were made possible because of an idea/action of his). The only thing I remember Hope deciding (after snapping & shooting Stefano) was confessing to Malcolm's murder. But even that wasn't simply Hope going to the PD Station out of the blue & confessing. Rafe had come to her house & told her that they needed to deal with the Malcolm murder investigation, or it would lead people to want to talk to Stefano.

Like it or not, Dena has had Rafe as the brains of this story & Hope as the hapless follower who does as she's told. Now that we seem to have had a directional shift, Hope is being more vocal and not letting Rafe direct her every move. I didn't have an issue with Hope calling Rafe, but I did have an issue with how Rafe was talking down to Hope after she started to show her anger at Andre for trying to harm her family.
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wallflower
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Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM
lysie
Feb 11 2016, 06:13 PM
So. HOPE'S idea was to take out Andre. Awesome.
Technically, Hope just said they needed to stop Andre. Rafe assumed "by the look in her eye" that she was thinking about killing Andre. lol. Hope's reply wasn't "you're right. that's what I was thinking", it was simply "then give me options". So technically, she didn't vocalize that she thought they should kill Andre. Rafe only assumed that that's what she was thinking. lol.

Let's be honest, though. It's not like Rafe's ideas have turned out all that great. It is, after all, his fault that Andre was able to find Stefano's dead body & has actual justification for going after Hope (& Rafe). And wasn't it Rafe's idea for Hope & the kids to leave town? Their going to the Horton Cabin allowed for Andre to break into her house, find the gun (that he technically can't tie to Stefano's murder, but he doesn't care), & plant the bug.
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
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Supergirlx2
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Restless84
Feb 11 2016, 08:35 PM
Hamilton
Feb 11 2016, 08:20 PM

I really enjoyed the follow up today for the Hope, Rafe, Andre, Chase and Ciara story. It kept me the most interested.
I found myself really enjoying these stories as well as Jennifer mixing it up with Hope, Ciara, and Chase. I'm not a fan of how they've written Hope and Rafe covering up Stefano's murder, but I'm finding Hope/Rafe vs. Andre entertaining, or at least I did today. They are definitely building to something with Chase and Ciara.
The last week of Hope/Rafe/Andre has been better because Hope isn't being written as weak & pathetic. She's not simply running scared from Andre's retaliations and needing Rafe to reassure her that all will be okay in the end. She has her backbone back. She's not about to pretend that Andre will just let things go or that there won't be more to come. (We've also finally gotten that whole "Rope developing romantic feelings" thing put on pause.)

As for Chase & Ciara,
Spoiler: click to toggle
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Restless84
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wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM
lysie
Feb 11 2016, 06:13 PM
So. HOPE'S idea was to take out Andre. Awesome.
Technically, Hope just said they needed to stop Andre. Rafe assumed "by the look in her eye" that she was thinking about killing Andre. lol. Hope's reply wasn't "you're right. that's what I was thinking", it was simply "then give me options". So technically, she didn't vocalize that she thought they should kill Andre. Rafe only assumed that that's what she was thinking. lol.

Let's be honest, though. It's not like Rafe's ideas have turned out all that great. It is, after all, his fault that Andre was able to find Stefano's dead body & has actual justification for going after Hope (& Rafe). And wasn't it Rafe's idea for Hope & the kids to leave town? Their going to the Horton Cabin allowed for Andre to break into her house, find the gun (that he technically can't tie to Stefano's murder, but he doesn't care), & plant the bug.
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
Wait a minute, how is Rafe isolating Hope from anyone? She's doing that on her own and actually today she reached out to her cousin for help. She's still standing on her own two feet taking care of her family. It's not the same thing as the Ben/Abby situation, which was close to a domestic abuse type situation.
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Supergirlx2
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wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM
lysie
Feb 11 2016, 06:13 PM
So. HOPE'S idea was to take out Andre. Awesome.
Technically, Hope just said they needed to stop Andre. Rafe assumed "by the look in her eye" that she was thinking about killing Andre. lol. Hope's reply wasn't "you're right. that's what I was thinking", it was simply "then give me options". So technically, she didn't vocalize that she thought they should kill Andre. Rafe only assumed that that's what she was thinking. lol.

Let's be honest, though. It's not like Rafe's ideas have turned out all that great. It is, after all, his fault that Andre was able to find Stefano's dead body & has actual justification for going after Hope (& Rafe). And wasn't it Rafe's idea for Hope & the kids to leave town? Their going to the Horton Cabin allowed for Andre to break into her house, find the gun (that he technically can't tie to Stefano's murder, but he doesn't care), & plant the bug.
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
I know exactly what you're talking about. And I've seen it too. Rafe wouldn't let Hope simply confess to shooting Stefano in a moment of rage after he had basically taunted her into it. He basically guilted (by using her kids' safety) her into going along with his idea to cover up the murder.
But even just looking at body language in their scenes - Rafe likes to grab Hope on the sides of her shoulders, as though he wants to shake any independent thoughts out of her. And he talks down to her (& not just cause GG is taller than KA). He doesn't respect her opinion or what she wants. Everything always has to be as he wants it.
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Supergirlx2
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Restless84
Feb 11 2016, 08:46 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
Wait a minute, how is Rafe isolating Hope from anyone? She's doing that on her own and actually today she reached out to her cousin for help. She's still standing on her own two feet taking care of her family. It's not the same thing as the Ben/Abby situation, which was close to a domestic abuse type situation.
Hope reached out to Jen because she decided not to call Rafe first & tell him about the fire until much later. lol. If Hope had called Rafe first, he probably would've suggested that they all stay with him.
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AngelaP
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Restless84
Feb 11 2016, 08:35 PM
Hamilton
Feb 11 2016, 08:20 PM

I really enjoyed the follow up today for the Hope, Rafe, Andre, Chase and Ciara story. It kept me the most interested.
I found myself really enjoying these stories as well as Jennifer mixing it up with Hope, Ciara, and Chase. I'm not a fan of how they've written Hope and Rafe covering up Stefano's murder, but I'm finding Hope/Rafe vs. Andre entertaining, or at least I did today. They are definitely building to something with Chase and Ciara.
Chase is going to do something really, really, really bad to Ciara. He better think twice though because trigger happy Hope's probably going to kill him three times before he hits the floor after he does.

Let me join in and say that I think I think I flat out enjoyed today's Hope/Andre/Rafe/Chase/Ciara scenes. I found myself wanting to see more Andre vs Hope (with Rafe marked down to rather insignificant side kick like he was today), more Hope & Jennifer, etc. I think it's off that Hope jumped to murder with such swiftness, on the other hand, I could understand even a rational person getting really pissed off knowing somebody tried to toast her kids.

There was this dark comedy vibe to their scenes today that really worked for me.
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AngelaP
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wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
I wouldn't say it's a domestic abuse story at all. If we're being real it's a stalker story.

Rafe has isolated a semi-crazy woman. Through isolation and isolation tactics, he got her to turn from treating him like recyclable trash to believing she can only depend on him which will get him closer and closer to what he wants (the bite of the black widow, lol).
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wallflower
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granolagirl
Feb 11 2016, 08:25 PM
The Ava scenes were definitely pointless. It would have been much better storytelling to not see her redundant breakdown, have Steve come back and try to get things together again, get the apology text and not know what to make of it, and then she pops up a few days down the line. Steve should have threatened her with prosecution before he left her, so he'd have good reason to think she wasn't coming back to town.

I did enjoy the cut from her wailing on the floor to Hope spraying the fire extinguisher everywhere. Maybe the editor had a little fun there.

Loved almost everything about the S&K scenes, except that they were all predicated on Ava forcing Steve to sleep with her. I like that they've been building trust, and it has escalated to a big situation where he just can't keep his promise to be honest. I love how they're both playing this -- it doesn't feel naive from Kayla's side, or uncomplicated from Steve's. And Joey is finally having the sort of conflict with Steve that should have been there from the beginning. (Think how much more impact that scene of him walking in on his and Ava would have had, if Steve had really been working to earn his trust all these months.) I'm sure this story will be dirt again to me soon, but not hating this part.

With the Hope/Jen and Ciara/Chase stuff too, strongest show of the week. I wish I could get into the John/Marlena scenes, but I just can't with his past. :(
I`m rooting for J&M as a couple and I enjoy their chemistry BUT I am also so very OVER John`s past. It looks like Marlena is too.
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concerned
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AngelaP
Feb 11 2016, 09:01 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
I wouldn't say it's a domestic abuse story at all. If we're being real it's a stalker story.

Rafe has isolated a semi-crazy woman. Through isolation and isolation tactics, he got her to turn from treating him like recyclable trash to believing she can only depend on him which will get him closer and closer to what he wants (the bite of the black widow, lol).
See second half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgMCIQHYi1A
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Lovejm


wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 09:04 PM
granolagirl
Feb 11 2016, 08:25 PM
The Ava scenes were definitely pointless. It would have been much better storytelling to not see her redundant breakdown, have Steve come back and try to get things together again, get the apology text and not know what to make of it, and then she pops up a few days down the line. Steve should have threatened her with prosecution before he left her, so he'd have good reason to think she wasn't coming back to town.

I did enjoy the cut from her wailing on the floor to Hope spraying the fire extinguisher everywhere. Maybe the editor had a little fun there.

Loved almost everything about the S&K scenes, except that they were all predicated on Ava forcing Steve to sleep with her. I like that they've been building trust, and it has escalated to a big situation where he just can't keep his promise to be honest. I love how they're both playing this -- it doesn't feel naive from Kayla's side, or uncomplicated from Steve's. And Joey is finally having the sort of conflict with Steve that should have been there from the beginning. (Think how much more impact that scene of him walking in on his and Ava would have had, if Steve had really been working to earn his trust all these months.) I'm sure this story will be dirt again to me soon, but not hating this part.

With the Hope/Jen and Ciara/Chase stuff too, strongest show of the week. I wish I could get into the John/Marlena scenes, but I just can't with his past. :(
I`m rooting for J&M as a couple and I enjoy their chemistry BUT I am also so very OVER John`s past. It looks like Marlena is too.
I think Marlena's over him almost dying and was hoping he'd let it go
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Kriss4


Steve KNOWS Ava's not finished. Why doesn't he bite the bullet and tell the truth? This way, he leaves Kayla vulnerable to Ava. It's so dumb, just when you think he'd learned something.

I'm sorry. I'm still mad at Steve. Maybe I'm not supposed to be, but I am. I keep thinking of all the people who would've been glad to offer a hand on the down low, but he didn't even ask.

He didn't want Ava, and she really miscalculated because he despises her more than ever now. But I hated that he just gave in, when at every juncture I could see other things I think he should have done. Yes, he was in a bad situation. Yes, he needed to save Kayla. Yes, he felt he had to...but it's so awful, and he never used his smarts, and now Ava will have a weapon to wield, and Steve's just letting her have it by withholding important information.
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wallflower
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Restless84
Feb 11 2016, 08:46 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
Wait a minute, how is Rafe isolating Hope from anyone? She's doing that on her own and actually today she reached out to her cousin for help. She's still standing on her own two feet taking care of her family. It's not the same thing as the Ben/Abby situation, which was close to a domestic abuse type situation.
He keeps making a bigger mess of things as they go and when she wants to call someone for help (Shaun) Rafe talks her out of it so he can handle it FOR her.

She would have been SO much better to have turned herself in like she wanted to in the beginning.

But Rafe had a better idea. Let`s cover it up and even hide the body.

He wants to make sure she thinks he`s the only one who is there for her now and she`s totally into it.
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concerned
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Kriss4
Feb 11 2016, 09:18 PM
Steve KNOWS Ava's not finished. Why doesn't he bite the bullet and tell the truth? This way, he leaves Kayla vulnerable to Ava. It's so dumb, just when you think he'd learned something.

I'm sorry. I'm still mad at Steve. Maybe I'm not supposed to be, but I am. I keep thinking of all the people who would've been glad to offer a hand on the down low, but he didn't even ask.

He didn't want Ava, and she really miscalculated because he despises her more than ever now. But I hated that he just gave in, when at every juncture I could see other things I think he should have done. Yes, he was in a bad situation. Yes, he needed to save Kayla. Yes, he felt he had to...but it's so awful, and he never used his smarts, and now Ava will have a weapon to wield, and Steve's just letting her have it by withholding important information.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KK1vn3jaXE

" C'mon baby we're not going to make it together if we hold out on one another"
Edited by concerned, Feb 11 2016, 09:29 PM.
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wallflower
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Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:50 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
I know exactly what you're talking about. And I've seen it too. Rafe wouldn't let Hope simply confess to shooting Stefano in a moment of rage after he had basically taunted her into it. He basically guilted (by using her kids' safety) her into going along with his idea to cover up the murder.
But even just looking at body language in their scenes - Rafe likes to grab Hope on the sides of her shoulders, as though he wants to shake any independent thoughts out of her. And he talks down to her (& not just cause GG is taller than KA). He doesn't respect her opinion or what she wants. Everything always has to be as he wants it.
He`s really playing up the "knight in shining armour" complex now.
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granolagirl
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#SorryNotSorry

concerned
Feb 11 2016, 09:28 PM
" C'mon baby we're not going to make it together if we hold out on one another"
Sort of randomly connected, but Ava's reactions to some of the things Steve has done, have made me think more than once of Jack, after Kayla slapped him, I think. "I liked it, I really liked it!"
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Restless84
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wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 09:26 PM
Restless84
Feb 11 2016, 08:46 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Wait a minute, how is Rafe isolating Hope from anyone? She's doing that on her own and actually today she reached out to her cousin for help. She's still standing on her own two feet taking care of her family. It's not the same thing as the Ben/Abby situation, which was close to a domestic abuse type situation.
He keeps making a bigger mess of things as they go and when she wants to call someone for help (Shaun) Rafe talks her out of it so he can handle it FOR her.

She would have been SO much better to have turned herself in like she wanted to in the beginning.

But Rafe had a better idea. Let`s cover it up and even hide the body.

He wants to make sure she thinks he`s the only one who is there for her now and she`s totally into it.
Rafe pointed out that it would put Shawn in a bad position if he conducted a forensics investigation, and Hope agreed. From my standpoint, Hope made her own decision. Rafe hasn't kept her from being with her friends and family, so I'm not seeing the intention on his part to be the only one who is there for her.
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