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Thursday, February 11th Episode Discussion
Topic Started: Feb 10 2016, 07:04 PM (10,505 Views)
Hamilton
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Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:39 PM
Hamilton
Feb 11 2016, 08:26 PM
Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
It's quite obvious you hate all things Rafe in this story, but it's a bit much to lay blame for every plot twist at his feet.
Except that 95% of the plot twists in this story have been his idea (or were made possible because of an idea/action of his). The only thing I remember Hope deciding (after snapping & shooting Stefano) was confessing to Malcolm's murder. But even that wasn't simply Hope going to the PD Station out of the blue & confessing. Rafe had come to her house & told her that they needed to deal with the Malcolm murder investigation, or it would lead people to want to talk to Stefano.

Like it or not, Dena has had Rafe as the brains of this story & Hope as the hapless follower who does as she's told. Now that we seem to have had a directional shift, Hope is being more vocal and not letting Rafe direct her every move. I didn't have an issue with Hope calling Rafe, but I did have an issue with how Rafe was talking down to Hope after she started to show her anger at Andre for trying to harm her family.
I'm talking about what you posted. Hope definitely sounded like she wanted to get rid of Andre permanently. That came from her. Rafe certainly has seen the look of revenge in Hope's eyes before. He tried to stop her from going after Stefano and she disregarded his sensible advice and we saw the result. The fact Hope said, " Then give me options!" clarifies exactly where her head was at. You're putting the blame on Rafe for assuming what she was thinking because she didn't 'technically' say kill?

Andre suspected Hope before he ever found the body just like Hope assumed it was Stefano who killed Bo. Their minds were made up without proof. It was Hope's decision to leave town and it was her decision to include Rafe. He wouldn't have gone if she didn't want him too. So it's Rafe's fault Andre broke in got the gun and planted the bug? Have you seen the job the so called guards are doing?! If Andre wanted in Hope's house, he'd get in Hope's house. I think it's a bit much to blame Rafe for that.

Rafe is going to be in scenes with Hope. The show is obviously building their relationship which means they will be together discussing each move they make as the story progresses. I haven't seen Rafe being the driving force while Hope just tails along. I've seen Rafe try to keep Hope calm and help her feel at peace with her actions. Today she was off the rails back in revenge mode storming through the DiMera doors. I'm not buying that Rafe was talking down to Hope at all today. He treats her like somebody he cares about.
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wallflower
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AngelaP
Feb 11 2016, 09:01 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 08:41 PM
Whatever is going on it seems to me Rafe is just doing his dammedest to isolate her from anybody and everybody so he can be her hero.

The whole thing just looks like somebkind of domestic abuse story or something.

This is so NOT what Bo had in mind I`m sure.
I wouldn't say it's a domestic abuse story at all. If we're being real it's a stalker story.

Rafe has isolated a semi-crazy woman. Through isolation and isolation tactics, he got her to turn from treating him like recyclable trash to believing she can only depend on him which will get him closer and closer to what he wants (the bite of the black widow, lol).
I was thinking "stalker" too but it`s just that some of Rafe`s tactics feel like those of an "abuserK too.

However you slice it it is CREEPY!
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concerned
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granolagirl
Feb 11 2016, 09:34 PM
concerned
Feb 11 2016, 09:28 PM
" C'mon baby we're not going to make it together if we hold out on one another"
Sort of randomly connected, but Ava's reactions to some of the things Steve has done, have made me think more than once of Jack, after Kayla slapped him, I think. "I liked it, I really liked it!"
" i know this is bad... I can't deny that but we're going to find a way to get through it."
I don't see how we're going to get through it. I haven't since it happened".
" That's because you've been trying to do it by yourself".


I really hope they go down the mirror path with Kayla and Steve handling this where Kayla recognises Steve's pain, and his sacrifice, not the adultery path and dishonesty path.

I hope she remembers how long she had to hold that information in before she was willing to share it.


Edited by concerned, Feb 11 2016, 09:45 PM.
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Kriss4


I think Ava's planning to kill herself and she's hoping Kayla will take the fall for it.

The one way ticket to Salem...the way they made a point of having Ava say Salem was her FINAL destination.

She's planning to make Kayla look guilty. If that doesn't pan out, she'll make Joey look guilty instead. Either way, she'd reason she'll win.

She'd think: Why should Steve and Kayla get to keep their son when she lost hers?
Edited by Kriss4, Feb 11 2016, 09:46 PM.
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Hamilton
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Restless84
Feb 11 2016, 09:35 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 09:26 PM
Restless84
Feb 11 2016, 08:46 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
He keeps making a bigger mess of things as they go and when she wants to call someone for help (Shaun) Rafe talks her out of it so he can handle it FOR her.

She would have been SO much better to have turned herself in like she wanted to in the beginning.

But Rafe had a better idea. Let`s cover it up and even hide the body.

He wants to make sure she thinks he`s the only one who is there for her now and she`s totally into it.
Rafe pointed out that it would put Shawn in a bad position if he conducted a forensics investigation, and Hope agreed. From my standpoint, Hope made her own decision. Rafe hasn't kept her from being with her friends and family, so I'm not seeing the intention on his part to be the only one who is there for her.
Exactly!
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wallflower
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Lovejm
Feb 11 2016, 09:14 PM
wallflower
Feb 11 2016, 09:04 PM
granolagirl
Feb 11 2016, 08:25 PM
The Ava scenes were definitely pointless. It would have been much better storytelling to not see her redundant breakdown, have Steve come back and try to get things together again, get the apology text and not know what to make of it, and then she pops up a few days down the line. Steve should have threatened her with prosecution before he left her, so he'd have good reason to think she wasn't coming back to town.

I did enjoy the cut from her wailing on the floor to Hope spraying the fire extinguisher everywhere. Maybe the editor had a little fun there.

Loved almost everything about the S&K scenes, except that they were all predicated on Ava forcing Steve to sleep with her. I like that they've been building trust, and it has escalated to a big situation where he just can't keep his promise to be honest. I love how they're both playing this -- it doesn't feel naive from Kayla's side, or uncomplicated from Steve's. And Joey is finally having the sort of conflict with Steve that should have been there from the beginning. (Think how much more impact that scene of him walking in on his and Ava would have had, if Steve had really been working to earn his trust all these months.) I'm sure this story will be dirt again to me soon, but not hating this part.

With the Hope/Jen and Ciara/Chase stuff too, strongest show of the week. I wish I could get into the John/Marlena scenes, but I just can't with his past. :(
I`m rooting for J&M as a couple and I enjoy their chemistry BUT I am also so very OVER John`s past. It looks like Marlena is too.
I think Marlena's over him almost dying and was hoping he'd let it go
She sounded like Kayla with Steve. She wants to live in the here and now.
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concerned
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concerned
Feb 11 2016, 09:45 PM
granolagirl
Feb 11 2016, 09:34 PM
concerned
Feb 11 2016, 09:28 PM
" C'mon baby we're not going to make it together if we hold out on one another"
Sort of randomly connected, but Ava's reactions to some of the things Steve has done, have made me think more than once of Jack, after Kayla slapped him, I think. "I liked it, I really liked it!"
" i know this is bad... I can't deny that but we're going to find a way to get through it."
I don't see how we're going to get through it. I haven't since it happened".
" That's because you've been trying to do it by yourself".


I really hope they go down the mirror path with Kayla and Steve handling this where Kayla recognises Steve's pain, and his sacrifice, not the adultery path and dishonesty path.

I hope she remembers how long she had to hold that information in before she was willing to share it.


or see Lucas at about 2:49

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQFOkTunHAE
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Lovejm


Hope is on my last nerve but I will say she is the one continually calling Rafe for help. It's past normal now. Every two minutes she has to call Rafe. Text Rafe. Tell Rafe what's happening.
Edited by Lovejm, Feb 11 2016, 09:55 PM.
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The Room Stops
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lysie
Feb 11 2016, 05:48 PM
Oh Deidre played that moment well where John said his father pulled himself out of nothing and had his own business. She's a really good supporting actor, lol.
Well, she has had practice. So, so, so, so, so (much too much) practice. ^o) :rolleyes:
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Lovejm


And Steve. I get he's upset and conflicted but Kayla is safe now and begging him for the truth. And with Joey knowing they kissed, does Steve really think it'll never come up again? What happened with Ava was awful but he should have come clean today.

Now maybe we will get some story out of it but I'd have preferred to see them handle this together.
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concerned
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Lovejm
Feb 11 2016, 09:54 PM
And Steve. I get he's upset and conflicted but Kayla is safe now and begging him for the truth. And with Joey knowing they kissed, does Steve really think it'll never come up again? What happened with Ava was awful but he should have come clean today.

Now maybe we will get some story out of it but I'd have preferred to see them handle this together.
Exactly - but I do think it would be very hard for a person like Steve to admit what happened to him, particularly to someone he loved and wanted to see himself in the protector role with.

I really hope they handle this well - but I doubt they will.
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Lovejm


concerned
Feb 11 2016, 09:59 PM
Lovejm
Feb 11 2016, 09:54 PM
And Steve. I get he's upset and conflicted but Kayla is safe now and begging him for the truth. And with Joey knowing they kissed, does Steve really think it'll never come up again? What happened with Ava was awful but he should have come clean today.

Now maybe we will get some story out of it but I'd have preferred to see them handle this together.
Exactly - but I do think it would be very hard for a person like Steve to admit what happened to him, particularly to someone he loved and wanted to see himself in the protector role with.

I really hope they handle this well - but I doubt they will.
She's the one person he should be able to tell anything. I want to see that.
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lysie


Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 08:18 PM
lysie
Feb 11 2016, 06:13 PM
So. HOPE'S idea was to take out Andre. Awesome.
Technically, Hope just said they needed to stop Andre. Rafe assumed "by the look in her eye" that she was thinking about killing Andre. lol. Hope's reply wasn't "you're right. that's what I was thinking", it was simply "then give me options". So technically, she didn't vocalize that she thought they should kill Andre. Rafe only assumed that that's what she was thinking. lol.

Let's be honest, though. It's not like Rafe's ideas have turned out all that great. It is, after all, his fault that Andre was able to find Stefano's dead body & has actual justification for going after Hope (& Rafe). And wasn't it Rafe's idea for Hope & the kids to leave town? Their going to the Horton Cabin allowed for Andre to break into her house, find the gun (that he technically can't tie to Stefano's murder, but he doesn't care), & plant the bug.
Rafe also being horrible doesn't make Hope less horrible. At no point did I even imply he was making good decisions. I'm just disappointed this next thing was her idea.
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AngelaP
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Rafe is not being malicious or anything BUT he is taking advantage of a situation to maneuver himself into a situation he wants to be in for some reason.

Hope was initially isolating herself from everybody, yes. At that point Rafe was stopping by every hour to see her, getting restless at her not texting him back, etc. Hope then killed a man and because Rafe stalks her on the regular he was the first one on the scene after this. She wanted to confess but Rafe talked her out of it. The added layer here is that Hope had been off/has been off since November and he knows this (he knew it then, and if he thought she was all better today may have been a sign that maybe she is not). He created a situation (the cover-up, not the murder) and continued to promote a situation where she could only really turn to him and where he builds himself as her great champion a little more every day. Today she wanted to turn to her son, he talked her out of it. So what if Shawn D gets involved, maybe he'll talk some sense into Hope. I'm not saying Hope has no choice here when I'm saying Rafe is manipulating the situation. IMO, Hope is angry and she doesn't want to lose her family and she is choosing to make bad choices from that place.

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AngelaP
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Lovejm
Feb 11 2016, 09:51 PM
Hope is on my last nerve but I will say she is the one continually calling Rafe for help. It's past normal now. Every two minutes she has to call Rafe. Text Rafe. Tell Rafe what's happening.
The thing is she was not interested in anything from him besides manipulating him outside of an office to take pictures of police files UNTIL he set forth a situation where they would be teammates, where she would have to move to depending on him and only him (the cover up). Everything you just mentioned is happening by Rafe's design. He could have convinced Hope to go with her first instinct and possibly to get help (LOGICALLY to me a friend would say "you need to get help, and if we go to the police now this man's son will have less power to harm you because of everybody knowing and keeping an eye out") but that would not have put him in the position he is in now in terms of her necessity for him.
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Supergirlx2
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Lovejm
Feb 11 2016, 09:51 PM
Hope is on my last nerve but I will say she is the one continually calling Rafe for help. It's past normal now. Every two minutes she has to call Rafe. Text Rafe. Tell Rafe what's happening.
Because Rafe "volunteered" himself to be part of Hope's doings. So he's technically the only person she can really talk to about Andre-related things without choosing to get more people mixed up in her mess.
I didn't mind Hope calling Rafe today, cause it seemed more of a "Take a look around, Rafe. This is what Andre has done to ME and MY family. He's not playing games, so stop telling me that it will all be okay and it'll just pass." visit than a "Rafe, hold me! Reassure me that it'll be okay & that Andre won't win." visit.
It was ridiculous when Hope called Rafe and the next thing she knew, he was on her doorstep. And it was ridiculous when she needed him to drop everything & get to her house cause Andre had been there and shared his theories with her.

Dena's Hope is weak & helpless and needs Rafe to hold her hand. Josh's Hope is on a revenge/no-bullshit tear and is sharing info with Rafe because he's just as deep into this mess as she is.
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AngelaP
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Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 10:48 PM
Dena's Hope is weak & helpless and needs Rafe to hold her hand. Josh's Hope is on a revenge/no-bullshit tear and is sharing info with Rafe because he's just as deep into this mess as she is.
I will say that's one of the things I really enjoyed about today's episode within this story. Most of this stupid cover-up story so far has been hapless Hope with Rafe showing up to show he's a virile, strong male that can reassure the scared little women. Today, Hope was blood thirsty again, which is IDK where they're going with that, but she was also really on top of things and grabbing all these guys by their balls and swinging them around a little. Is this Dena's Hope? Is this Josh's Hope? IDK, it's closer to December Hope and I prefer her to January Hope. And while I did really enjoy the Andre vs. Hope dynamic today, I do need their lil story line here to end ASAP.
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Lovejm


Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 10:48 PM
Lovejm
Feb 11 2016, 09:51 PM
Hope is on my last nerve but I will say she is the one continually calling Rafe for help. It's past normal now. Every two minutes she has to call Rafe. Text Rafe. Tell Rafe what's happening.
Because Rafe "volunteered" himself to be part of Hope's doings. So he's technically the only person she can really talk to about Andre-related things without choosing to get more people mixed up in her mess.
I didn't mind Hope calling Rafe today, cause it seemed more of a "Take a look around, Rafe. This is what Andre has done to ME and MY family. He's not playing games, so stop telling me that it will all be okay and it'll just pass." visit than a "Rafe, hold me! Reassure me that it'll be okay & that Andre won't win." visit.
It was ridiculous when Hope called Rafe and the next thing she knew, he was on her doorstep. And it was ridiculous when she needed him to drop everything & get to her house cause Andre had been there and shared his theories with her.

Dena's Hope is weak & helpless and needs Rafe to hold her hand. Josh's Hope is on a revenge/no-bullshit tear and is sharing info with Rafe because he's just as deep into this mess as she is.
I'm not invested in this story besides wanting it to end but I think Rafe may feel he's living up to the promise he made to Bo to take care of Hope. They set this up for Rafe to be her protector before Bo was even gone. And here we are.

Whatever the reasons are, I'm not enjoying Hope. She's on way too much and eating the show alive now.
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PALMommy
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Ocean
Feb 11 2016, 12:34 PM
Hope tells Jennifer she had a fire in the house but we're fine. Jennifer said I'm so glad you're ok. Hope said I'm terrible to wake you up in middle night. She said you know you can welcome in here. Hope calls Rafe I need you to meet me in my house right away, I think Andre Strick back.
Seeee? This is the crap I was talking about awhile back. Jennifer was in the hospital along with two others - both who are family through her marriage to Bo and we NEVER EVER see Hope go to the hospital to check on any of them (at least I don't remember seeing her there?!) and yet, her house catches on fire and there she is on her cousin's door step! Has Hope checked on how JJ's doing with since the whole Paige thing, or the Eve incident, or asked how Jennifer feels about the police academy, or even been to see the baby, or asked about how Abigail is coping with ALL that's happened to her? We know Jennifer's gone and checked on Hope - we've seen it, but Hope is just portrayed as this ridiculous damsel in distress that can only confide in Rafe.

Puke!
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PALMommy
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Supergirlx2
Feb 11 2016, 12:57 PM
I'm failing to understand Rafe's not wanting SHAWN (aka Hope's SON) to investigate the fire & see if he can find any indications that could point to Andre having been behind the fire. Is Hope's son not allowed to know that Andre is after his mom?! What would happen if Andre decided to go after Shawn (or Belle or Claire) in order to get to Hope?!
Have BB and KA shared one scene together since his return?
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