|
SON Reports: DAYS Renewed through September 2017
|
|
Topic Started: Feb 11 2016, 03:30 PM (16,327 Views)
|
|
Restless84
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:07 PM
Post #201
|
- Posts:
- 21,467
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #14,685
- Joined:
- January 19, 2014
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of Our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- The Young and the Restless
- Favorite Primetime Soap Opera of All Time
- Dallas
|
- AngelaP
- Feb 13 2016, 02:33 PM
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 01:04 PM
]Yes, they did have Marlena come in once, which I thought was great, but they never followed up on it. On the bold; agreed, and she should. I'm not saying she should feel guilty because it's her fault he becomes a rapist, but because that's a normal reaction to have.
Hope, Ciara and Chase were all Aiden's victims, and to focus just on Chase for a second, there were points where he was struggling with what Bo did, feeling uncomfortable in the home, wondering if his father had killed his mother, asking Rafe to stay with him because he was having a hard time and Hope wasn't there, etc. Hope clearly isn't in a good place either, and she didn't make the choice to drop the ball, but she did, and that would be true even if Chase didn't become a rapist. I was lobbying for Chase to either move in with relatives, for jarlena to take an interest in him, or for the show to steal someone's suggestion that he be Benji's son, Steven, that way S&K could have taken him in.
If they really dig into the layers of this from November through the shooting and skip on down to the rape ... it's incredibly rich psychological land to dig into with all three characters. The complete mind---- they've all been through is a feast. The layers between them is a feast. Cover-up until this past week aside, where there was gloss put over all these stories for a period, the core you have here... Chase is essentially questioning if he was born bad due to what his father did to Hope and what he suspects his father may have done to his mother. [He probably remembers he killed his mother or he thought he killed his mother on some subconscious level.] Hope was not able to emotionally connect with him on any level for a good month and a half when he really needed her most - her especially - to look at him and tell him she didn't blame him at all and that he is not his father every single day. Completely innocently, completely innocently, Ciara jumps in and makes a point of playing into his insecurities a little too much. I get Hope feeling guilty and I even feel bad for what Chase has gone through up to this point (though I thought it was incredibly disloyal and disrespectful for him to bond with Andre last week). However, he does not have to rape Ciara. That's his choice and in no way can I feel bad for him in this situation. Hope is not at fault. She should have paid more attention to Chase and Ciara, but she has been more than welcoming to Chase and treated him like family (hello Horton Christmas Tree). I'm not trying to say you're saying Chase is not at fault, I just thought your post was good one to respond to.
|
|
|
| |
|
lysie
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
Post #202
|
- Posts:
- 64,323
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #4,604
- Joined:
- May 20, 2009
|
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:07 PM
- AngelaP
- Feb 13 2016, 02:33 PM
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 01:04 PM
]Yes, they did have Marlena come in once, which I thought was great, but they never followed up on it. On the bold; agreed, and she should. I'm not saying she should feel guilty because it's her fault he becomes a rapist, but because that's a normal reaction to have.
Hope, Ciara and Chase were all Aiden's victims, and to focus just on Chase for a second, there were points where he was struggling with what Bo did, feeling uncomfortable in the home, wondering if his father had killed his mother, asking Rafe to stay with him because he was having a hard time and Hope wasn't there, etc. Hope clearly isn't in a good place either, and she didn't make the choice to drop the ball, but she did, and that would be true even if Chase didn't become a rapist. I was lobbying for Chase to either move in with relatives, for jarlena to take an interest in him, or for the show to steal someone's suggestion that he be Benji's son, Steven, that way S&K could have taken him in.
If they really dig into the layers of this from November through the shooting and skip on down to the rape ... it's incredibly rich psychological land to dig into with all three characters. The complete mind---- they've all been through is a feast. The layers between them is a feast. Cover-up until this past week aside, where there was gloss put over all these stories for a period, the core you have here... Chase is essentially questioning if he was born bad due to what his father did to Hope and what he suspects his father may have done to his mother. [He probably remembers he killed his mother or he thought he killed his mother on some subconscious level.] Hope was not able to emotionally connect with him on any level for a good month and a half when he really needed her most - her especially - to look at him and tell him she didn't blame him at all and that he is not his father every single day. Completely innocently, completely innocently, Ciara jumps in and makes a point of playing into his insecurities a little too much.
I get Hope feeling guilty and I even feel bad for what Chase has gone through up to this point (though I thought it was incredibly disloyal and disrespectful for him to bond with Andre last week). However, he does not have to rape Ciara. That's his choice and in no way can I feel bad for him in this situation. Hope is not at fault. She should have paid more attention to Chase and Ciara, but she has been more than welcoming to Chase and treated him like family (hello Horton Christmas Tree). I'm not trying to say you're saying Chase is not at fault, I just thought your post was good one to respond to. But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty.
|
|
|
| |
|
frivolity
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:12 PM
Post #203
|
- Posts:
- 2,275
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #16,516
- Joined:
- October 13, 2015
|
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:07 PM
- AngelaP
- Feb 13 2016, 02:33 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep[He probably remembers he killed his mother or he thought he killed his mother on some subconscious level.] Hope was not able to emotionally connect with him on any level for a good month and a half when he really needed her most - her especially - to look at him and tell him she didn't blame him at all and that he is not his father every single day. Completely innocently, completely innocently, Ciara jumps in and makes a point of playing into his insecurities a little too much.
I get Hope feeling guilty and I even feel bad for what Chase has gone through up to this point (though I thought it was incredibly disloyal and disrespectful for him to bond with Andre last week). However, he does not have to rape Ciara. That's his choice and in no way can I feel bad for him in this situation. Hope is not at fault. She should have paid more attention to Chase and Ciara, but she has been more than welcoming to Chase and treated him like family (hello Horton Christmas Tree). I'm not trying to say you're saying Chase is not at fault, I just thought your post was good one to respond to.
But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty. Well, since it seems that they've made everyone on this show Catholic at this point, they should all always be feeling guilty. ;)
|
|
|
| |
|
Restless84
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:13 PM
Post #204
|
- Posts:
- 21,467
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #14,685
- Joined:
- January 19, 2014
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of Our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- The Young and the Restless
- Favorite Primetime Soap Opera of All Time
- Dallas
|
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:07 PM
- AngelaP
- Feb 13 2016, 02:33 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep[He probably remembers he killed his mother or he thought he killed his mother on some subconscious level.] Hope was not able to emotionally connect with him on any level for a good month and a half when he really needed her most - her especially - to look at him and tell him she didn't blame him at all and that he is not his father every single day. Completely innocently, completely innocently, Ciara jumps in and makes a point of playing into his insecurities a little too much.
I get Hope feeling guilty and I even feel bad for what Chase has gone through up to this point (though I thought it was incredibly disloyal and disrespectful for him to bond with Andre last week). However, he does not have to rape Ciara. That's his choice and in no way can I feel bad for him in this situation. Hope is not at fault. She should have paid more attention to Chase and Ciara, but she has been more than welcoming to Chase and treated him like family (hello Horton Christmas Tree). I'm not trying to say you're saying Chase is not at fault, I just thought your post was good one to respond to.
But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty. I know. I'm not a fan of the idea that Chase is some sort of victim in all of this.
|
|
|
| |
|
six
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:14 PM
Post #205
|
- Posts:
- 13,427
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #1,842
- Joined:
- February 12, 2008
|
- AngelaP
- Feb 13 2016, 02:33 PM
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 01:04 PM
]Yes, they did have Marlena come in once, which I thought was great, but they never followed up on it. On the bold; agreed, and she should. I'm not saying she should feel guilty because it's her fault he becomes a rapist, but because that's a normal reaction to have.
Hope, Ciara and Chase were all Aiden's victims, and to focus just on Chase for a second, there were points where he was struggling with what Bo did, feeling uncomfortable in the home, wondering if his father had killed his mother, asking Rafe to stay with him because he was having a hard time and Hope wasn't there, etc. Hope clearly isn't in a good place either, and she didn't make the choice to drop the ball, but she did, and that would be true even if Chase didn't become a rapist. I was lobbying for Chase to either move in with relatives, for jarlena to take an interest in him, or for the show to steal someone's suggestion that he be Benji's son, Steven, that way S&K could have taken him in.
If they really dig into the layers of this from November through the shooting and skip on down to the rape ... it's incredibly rich psychological land to dig into with all three characters. The complete mind---- they've all been through is a feast. The layers between them is a feast. Cover-up until this past week aside, where there was gloss put over all these stories for a period, the core you have here... Chase is essentially questioning if he was born bad due to what his father did to Hope and what he suspects his father may have done to his mother. [He probably remembers he killed his mother or he thought he killed his mother on some subconscious level.] Hope was not able to emotionally connect with him on any level for a good month and a half when he really needed her most - her especially - to look at him and tell him she didn't blame him at all and that he is not his father every single day. Completely innocently, completely innocently, Ciara jumps in and makes a point of playing into his insecurities a little too much. Hope. She was destroyed after the only man she had allowed herself to fall in love with besides Bo betrayed her in the most severe way possible, after losing the love of her life so abruptly ... and, after learning everything she thought was true, every instinct she let herself have for the past year was a complete lie and completely wrong. The level of self loathing, guilt, anger/rage that is inside her from just those things alone. She emotionally disengaged from everybody including those two kids who are her responsibility when they needed her most. She didn't have a choice (mental breakdown) but it happened. Chase, through no fault of his own, is the living embodiment of everything that essentially destroyed Hope but she made the choice to keep him. No matter how good of a person you believe yourself to be, that is a reminder and it's HARD. Then you have her missing small things now as she's trying to physically protect them and not have them lose more because of what she has done to try to find peace and , ironically, protect them. When this rape goes down and comes out, Hope is going to go over all of that on the front of both of those children - why did I? If only I had? Ciara had basically took on the role of trying to "take care" of both Hope (the fear of losing her mother for good physically and/or mentally hanging over her) and Chase (she basically had to be his primary support) when she also had/has to deal with the father figure she trusted almost killing her mother AND her her own father dying abruptly. She's just 16. Next up the rape. While she's caring and understanding, there's anger and resentment there that will eventually explode. I really wish they wouldn't go down this road, but if they are, it would be a mistake to toss all these layers aside. It's ugly, but that's what drama is supposed to be like. I'm not sure how the kids would do, but KA could own a story like this, and at least it would be character-driven, unlike her tossing Stefano in a trash heap.
On preview, I want to make it clear that in no way am I saying that Chase has to rape Ciara or that it's somehow not his fault that he does. Frankly, I think it's undeniable that he has been a victim (which is a different thing than saying he's a victim in this particular act) and that he didn't get the help he needed, though. That literally played out on screen. We've seen him struggling, while Hope was consumed with the desire for revenge. Ciara even called her out on this.
Edited by six, Feb 13 2016, 04:17 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
lysie
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:15 PM
Post #206
|
- Posts:
- 64,323
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #4,604
- Joined:
- May 20, 2009
|
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:13 PM
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:07 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty.
I know. I'm not a fan of the idea that Chase is some sort of victim in all of this. I think he's a victim in a different part of the story. :shrug: That in no way excuses what he does to Ciara, though.
|
|
|
| |
|
Restless84
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:28 PM
Post #207
|
- Posts:
- 21,467
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #14,685
- Joined:
- January 19, 2014
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of Our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- The Young and the Restless
- Favorite Primetime Soap Opera of All Time
- Dallas
|
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:15 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:13 PM
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I know. I'm not a fan of the idea that Chase is some sort of victim in all of this.
I think he's a victim in a different part of the story. :shrug: That in no way excuses what he does to Ciara, though. I don't know. I guess I can see that perspective. There is just something about it that bothers me. It reminds me of people trying to say Ben was a victim and what he did (specifically to Abby) was justified, when there were other choices he could have made. I get he was an adult and Chase is a teen though.
|
|
|
| |
|
lysie
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:32 PM
Post #208
|
- Posts:
- 64,323
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #4,604
- Joined:
- May 20, 2009
|
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:28 PM
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:15 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:13 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I think he's a victim in a different part of the story. :shrug: That in no way excuses what he does to Ciara, though.
I don't know. I guess I can see that perspective. There is just something about it that bothers me. It reminds me of people trying to say Ben was a victim and what he did (specifically to Abby) was justified, when there were other choices he could have made. I get he was an adult and Chase is a teen though. Well...that's a different thing. However, I do think there are aspects of Ben being a victim. But being a victim in one aspect doesn't excuse later actions. Though I do know sometimes that's the intent in bringing it up.
|
|
|
| |
|
six
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:34 PM
Post #209
|
- Posts:
- 13,427
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #1,842
- Joined:
- February 12, 2008
|
Explanations aren't excuses. :shrug: (Although, in this case, it isn't even an explanation; just a reason for Hope to take stock of her choices).
|
|
|
| |
|
thepadange
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:34 PM
Post #210
|
- Posts:
- 19,424
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #13,186
- Joined:
- March 3, 2013
|
- frivolity
- Feb 13 2016, 04:12 PM
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:07 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty.
Well, since it seems that they've made everyone on this show Catholic at this point, they should all always be feeling guilty. ;) What feeling guilty or not feeling guilty has to do with being Catholic?
|
|
|
| |
|
lysie
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:36 PM
Post #211
|
- Posts:
- 64,323
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #4,604
- Joined:
- May 20, 2009
|
- thepadange
- Feb 13 2016, 04:34 PM
- frivolity
- Feb 13 2016, 04:12 PM
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Well, since it seems that they've made everyone on this show Catholic at this point, they should all always be feeling guilty. ;)
What feeling guilty or not feeling guilty has to do with being Catholic? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_guilt
|
|
|
| |
|
Restless84
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:43 PM
Post #212
|
- Posts:
- 21,467
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #14,685
- Joined:
- January 19, 2014
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of Our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- The Young and the Restless
- Favorite Primetime Soap Opera of All Time
- Dallas
|
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 04:34 PM
Explanations aren't excuses. :shrug: (Although, in this case, it isn't even an explanation; just a reason for Hope to take stock of her choices). I guess my problem is when explanations are used to excuse actions. No one here was doing that, but I can foresee it coming up in a few weeks.
|
|
|
| |
|
AngelaP
|
Feb 13 2016, 04:57 PM
Post #213
|
- Posts:
- 1,793
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #16,668
- Joined:
- November 26, 2015
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of Our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- All My Children
- Favorite Current Primetime Soap Opera
- Greys Anatomy
|
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 04:14 PM
I really wish they wouldn't go down this road, but if they are, it would be a mistake to toss all these layers aside. It's ugly, but that's what drama is supposed to be like. I'm not sure how the kids would do, but KA could own a story like this, and at least it would be character-driven, unlike her tossing Stefano in a trash heap.
On preview, I want to make it clear that in no way am I saying that Chase has to rape Ciara or that it's somehow not his fault that he does. Frankly, I think it's undeniable that he has been a victim (which is a different thing than saying he's a victim in this particular act) and that he didn't get the help he needed, though. That literally played out on screen. We've seen him struggling, while Hope was consumed with the desire for revenge. Ciara even called her out on this. I feel like Josh Griffith was LIVING in the psychosis he was building here in November so he may do this right and get into all those layers. Like you, I would have preferred them not doing this rape leg but it appears they're going to do it and they're going to do it soon. If so, yes, it would be a big mistake/oversight not to play all the layers that are firmly planted there.
IMO, Josh has taken over the great bulk of this story since this past week, too. There's been a shift. Since Hope murdered Stefano, they have brushed all of the psychological issues under the rug for this trio to play this crazy round of house. Suddenly this past week, the issues are all their again - Hope's sort of manic-ness along with the easy rage trigger is slowly coming back, Chase's insecurities and anger, Ciara being insensitive to Chase because she's a 16 year old and not a parent, Rafe just being there in the background while Hope is the one making choices again, etc [As I said in another thread, Ciara also suddenly showing an attraction to Chase --> that's Josh]
Restless84, I totally get what you're saying. I'll say it again I'm not all blaming anybody but Chase for what he decides to do. In terms of story-telling though, it's rich to play all the layers and their are layers here particularly because this is not a grown man, particularly because the incredible amount of trauma these 3 have gone through recently.
|
|
|
| |
|
lysie
|
Feb 13 2016, 05:03 PM
Post #214
|
- Posts:
- 64,323
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #4,604
- Joined:
- May 20, 2009
|
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:43 PM
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 04:34 PM
Explanations aren't excuses. :shrug: (Although, in this case, it isn't even an explanation; just a reason for Hope to take stock of her choices).
I guess my problem is when explanations are used to excuse actions. No one here was doing that, but I can foresee it coming up in a few weeks. I can see that happening, too. But no need to fight it yet, lol.
|
|
|
| |
|
AngelaP
|
Feb 13 2016, 05:16 PM
Post #215
|
- Posts:
- 1,793
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #16,668
- Joined:
- November 26, 2015
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of Our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- All My Children
- Favorite Current Primetime Soap Opera
- Greys Anatomy
|
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 05:03 PM
I can see that happening, too. But no need to fight it yet, lol. Restless84, even when it comes, you can not fight people looking at things in a simplistic way. If it's written well, just enjoy it and do your best not to mind anybody ;) That's what I try to do.
There's also the Andre point here. Because Chase is 16 and he's gone through a lot of recent trauma (I didn't mention this in my extended thoughts but with him we also have that Hope's (ex)husband & Ciara's father killed his father which is again a fuel infused mix for this unit), and because we have things like Andre fueling him, etc IT'S not going to be as simple as tossing him aside. There's too many layers.
Edited by AngelaP, Feb 13 2016, 05:21 PM.
|
|
|
| |
|
SoapsandDaysfan
|
Feb 13 2016, 05:30 PM
Post #216
|
- Posts:
- 1,484
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #16,186
- Joined:
- June 21, 2015
- Favorite Current Daytime Soap Opera
- Days of our Lives
- Favorite Soap Opera of All Time
- As the World Turns
|
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:13 PM
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:10 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 04:07 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty.
I know. I'm not a fan of the idea that Chase is some sort of victim in all of this. I think it will depend on how things play out. If Andre brainwashes Chase into doing something terrible, then I would definitely see Chase as a victim. I guess we'll see.
|
|
|
| |
|
Amazee-Dayzee
|
Feb 13 2016, 11:08 PM
Post #217
|
- Posts:
- 4,825
- Group:
- Elite Member
- Member
- #13,241
- Joined:
- March 20, 2013
|
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 11:36 AM
I have no idea why in the world you would think anyone would be happy about this. There were ways to write Chase out that didn't involve him hurting Ciara. I never said that people would be happy with the storyline. I said that people will be happy that any link Hope had with someone else before Bo came back will be gone. As soon as they heard PR was on his way back, I saw some people (not all and I won't name any names) want Aiden and Chase gone. Now that Aiden is gone, they want Chase gone just because he reminds people that Hope moved on from Bo. That is how it comes across and I personally don't like it.
A character can be on the show and not have any family around them. When Doug first came on, he had no family.
|
|
|
| |
|
lysie
|
Feb 13 2016, 11:12 PM
Post #218
|
- Posts:
- 64,323
- Group:
- Admin
- Member
- #4,604
- Joined:
- May 20, 2009
|
- Amazee-Dayzee
- Feb 13 2016, 11:08 PM
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 11:36 AM
I have no idea why in the world you would think anyone would be happy about this. There were ways to write Chase out that didn't involve him hurting Ciara.
I never said that people would be happy with the storyline. I said that people will be happy that any link Hope had with someone else before Bo came back will be gone. As soon as they heard PR was on his way back, I saw some people (not all and I won't name any names) want Aiden and Chase gone. Now that Aiden is gone, they want Chase gone just because he reminds people that Hope moved on from Bo. That is how it comes across and I personally don't like it. A character can be on the show and not have any family around them. When Doug first came on, he had no family. With Aiden apparently coming back, why would that matter anyway?
I wanted him gone, but not because he was a reminder of anything. Because as a kid he was annoying, and he still just seems excessive. :shrug: Not every opinion is about couples or fanbases.
|
|
|
| |
|
six
|
Feb 13 2016, 11:14 PM
Post #219
|
- Posts:
- 13,427
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #1,842
- Joined:
- February 12, 2008
|
- Amazee-Dayzee
- Feb 13 2016, 11:08 PM
- six
- Feb 13 2016, 11:36 AM
I have no idea why in the world you would think anyone would be happy about this. There were ways to write Chase out that didn't involve him hurting Ciara.
I never said that people would be happy with the storyline. I said that people will be happy that any link Hope had with someone else before Bo came back will be gone. As soon as they heard PR was on his way back, I saw some people (not all and I won't name any names) want Aiden and Chase gone. Now that Aiden is gone, they want Chase gone just because he reminds people that Hope moved on from Bo. That is how it comes across and I personally don't like it. A character can be on the show and not have any family around them. When Doug first came on, he had no family. Okay, my mistake on misreading it. I'll fully admit to wanting both Aiden and Chase gone. Not because of Bo and Hope (at one point I would have been fine with her going with them), but because Chase and Aiden were some of the most boring characters ever created.
|
|
|
| |
|
Lovejm
|
Feb 13 2016, 11:16 PM
Post #220
|
- Posts:
- 42,305
- Group:
- Veteran
- Member
- #15,587
- Joined:
- October 30, 2014
- Mood
- None
|
With DC maybe coming back in May or so, I really hope they don't drag the Ciara reveal until sweeps. I can't watch that kid live with her rapist for three months.
|
|
|
| |
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
|