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SON Reports: DAYS Renewed through September 2017
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Topic Started: Feb 11 2016, 03:30 PM (16,325 Views)
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Kyrai
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Feb 14 2016, 10:38 AM
Post #241
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- Lovejm
- Feb 14 2016, 12:14 AM
- Amazee-Dayzee
- Feb 13 2016, 11:53 PM
With J&M, its kind of a blur because only ONE of their marriages were valid. As a matter of fact, because of that stupid Alex North story, ALL of her marriages were invalid. The Alex North storyline which turned me off seeing him back as Roman because its too painful.
Marlena's marriages were set up like this before that shit: Don (divorced) Roman (divorced) Eugene (invalid) John (invalid) John (remarried)
Only two of Marlena's marriages were invalid and she remarried John in 1999. Now, John and Marlena have been married 5 times and ALL of them except the last time has been invalid. The first marriage was invalid because John wasn't Roman, second one because of Alex North, third and fourth because of the stupid Jope storyline, the fifth time they got a divorce but I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow make that marriage invalid also.
Legal validity aside they didn't know they weren't actually married all those years so it wouldn't impact them feeling like husband and wife for 30 years. I also think the show isn't recognizing the weddings were invalidated. At memory lane they made a specific point of saying they thought they were married for many years before their first official wedding in 99. If anything they play it like it was J&M from the beginning. Even at the gala she said they were reminiscing of Salem and how they met there and fell in love and had their family. They really simplify the whole thing. I hate that they simplify, but with J&M, if you don't, I think it would take the whole show. It takes forever to try to explain the history of J&M. I'm content knowing it was magic the second they met.
I never held Gina or John responsible for what they did under control of Stefano. The writers messed up trying to do anything on J&M's honeymoon imo, after we waited all those years. But I don't think the idea was terrible. Stefano doing this was appalling, but Stefano was a controlling megalomaniac, and at least John and Hope were mature experienced adults. Stefano messed with his pawns, and if they had played it as Bo and Marlena rescuing their loved ones from Steffie's clutches vs. trying to make out like there was a special Gina/John love, it would have went over better. I'd have loved Bo and Marlena dealing with John and Hope, trying to stop them but not hurt them. And I would have liked to see John and Hope's connection to their true loves be a big part (forced to do Stefano's bidding, but struggling against the brainwashing). As it was, it was just a confusing mess, unfortunately. Bad timing, and bad execution.
Unless Andre were to brainwash Chase, which is even more appalling to me here because these are young inexperienced teens, there is no excuse for Chase doing this to Ciara. I can feel bad for his past, but raping Ciara is all on him, and he should suffer mightily. Who and who does not feel guilt, is a grayer area to me because I'd think everyone involved would wish that they could have prevented this. Vic could feel guilt for not watching out for Bo's child, and I could see that. I hate that I've lost faith in the writers because I wouldn't put it past them trying to paint Chase as the victim after that valentine's ep.
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six
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Feb 14 2016, 10:56 AM
Post #242
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- cord08
- Feb 13 2016, 11:40 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 13 2016, 11:36 PM
- cord08
- Feb 13 2016, 11:26 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I want a Chad & Abby wedding before KM leaves.
Yeah, although things look ominous now, I do still think they may get married before KM leaves. I mean, it's mid-February, and I don't think Kate's leaving until mid-June. With the pace of some of these stories, that's more than enough time for them to go through some crap and then get married. I think it might depend on what KM said when she left and what their plans for Abby are. If they don't think KM is coming back and they are actively looking to recast, I could see them holding off until the new Abby is hired. That way they could use the wedding flashbacks without having the old actor in the scene.
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thepadange
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Feb 14 2016, 10:56 AM
Post #243
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- lysie
- Feb 14 2016, 10:17 AM
- thepadange
- Feb 14 2016, 08:14 AM
- lysie
- Feb 13 2016, 04:36 PM
Thanks. The research results sound far from being conclusive though.
Conclusive? It's a saying. Must be a cultural thing.
I had to read some of the research summaries to even understand what this phenomenon is about lol.
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esp13
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Feb 14 2016, 11:00 AM
Post #244
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Here's the thing. In my opinion, the best rape story the show did was Kayla's rape by Jack. And part of what made it such a great story is the lead-up and the nearly four years of aftermath. And part of that story is about Jack - somebody who was basically a good guy, but became obsessed with wanting Kayla to love him. That obsession was combined with his jealousy of Steve (and his complete inability to understand why Kayla could love Steve and not him). Throw in his privileged upbringing where he was never denied what he wanted, and his own "monster" within him, and you have the moment where all the darkness took over and something horrible happened.
Setting it up so that you could see the jealousy, anger, and controlling side start to take over - and to see why - didn't provide an excuse for Jack's actions. It provided a context. And that context permeated everything for years. It was why it took a long time for Jack to stop seeing himself as a victim and why everything changed when he finally did.
So, pointing out how the events of the last six months could have affected Chase is not about finding an excuse for what is apparently going to happen. It's simply saying that if they want to tell the story well, and make it a deep and dramatic story, then all of those circumstances should be part of it, not just ignores.
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six
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Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
Post #245
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It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I've been thinking about the Jack/Kayla rape/Jack's redemption story, too. I think it's odd that it is so popular around here, yet there's such a push not to do something similar again.
Edited by six, Feb 14 2016, 11:09 AM.
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nananana7
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Feb 14 2016, 11:28 AM
Post #246
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- thepadange
- Feb 14 2016, 10:56 AM
Must be a cultural thing.
I had to read some of the research summaries to even understand what this phenomenon is about lol. I have a reply regarding "Catholic guilt", but I'll put it behind spoiler tags because it's long and way off-topic.
Spoiler: click to toggle I'm trying to avoid having too many sets of quotes.... Lysie said: But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty.Frivolity commented: Well, since it seems that they've made everyone on this show Catholic at this point, they should all always be feeling guilty. ;) (note the wink at the end of Frivolity's comment.) Thepadange asked: What feeling guilty or not feeling guilty has to do with being Catholic?Lysie's reply was to give this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_guiltThepadange commented: Thanks. The research results sound far from being conclusive though.Lysie said: Conclusive? It's a saying.Thepadange said: Must be a cultural thing. I had to read some of the research summaries to even understand what this phenomenon is about lol.--------------------------------------------- Some thoughts on the idea of "Catholic guilt" ... There's an old Catholic teaching that Adam and Eve's fall in the garden of Eden was the "original sin" of humanity, and all human beings are born stained with this sin. There were also some strict Catholic elementary schools and high schools run by overbearing nuns. They tended to emphasize to the children that they were all sinners. Some children were raised to constantly question if every thought or motive they had was impure. Nuns did lots of scolding and and some corporal punishment. I think the archetypal concept of "original sin" was *supposed to be* a metaphor about human frailty and that nobody's perfect, and we start from wherever we are and try to become better human beings via loving everyone. However some Catholic educators took it literally, that we are all sinners and we have to constantly be scrupulous about being tempted, and thus must overly judge ourselves. Children who were raised that way .... grew up to parent their own children that way. People raised in that environment tend to feel guilty as a default emotional reaction. It is unfortunate that some educators put so much focus on "avoiding sin"... that they forgot the primary mission should focus on "being loving". However, it is important to note that there were many Catholic nuns and educators who didn't focus on the sin/guilt obsession. The problem was that the few teachers who had the obsession ...left an impact on their students. I grew up Catholic and my siblings went to Catholic schools, but we were taught that love and acceptance is very important. My mother wasn't into guilting/shaming us about stuff. And my local parish was quite liberal. And I'm 60 years old. We were aware of the concept of "Catholic guilt" but my family and parish wasn't into that. Furthermore, I think the whole "Catholic guilt" thing was more common in the 1950s and 1960s, and much less relevant nowadays ... but it's still referenced in popular culture because the memories linger. It's become sort of a humorous stereotype. I think the wikipedia article was about an actual statistical study to see if Catholic guilt exists. But that's not the point when someone jokes about it. Frivolity's comment was just a joke, hence the wink. And also a joke about how the Hortons weren't originally Catholic but now seem to be part of Saint Luke's parish.
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thepadange
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Feb 14 2016, 11:48 AM
Post #247
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- six
- Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I've been thinking about the Jack/Kayla rape/Jack's redemption story, too. I think it's odd that it is so popular around here, yet there's such a push not to do something similar again. I'm an European from a country where near 80% of residents consider themselves Roman Catholic :blulaugh: . Never heard of the term. LOL
I can't comment on Jack/Kayla rape because for some reason I only remember parts of the aftermath. I don't remember exactly when his redemption arc started either but I remember still hating Jack in 1989. He was as arrogant and manipulative as ever (I mean Jack/Diana/Cal story). I actually feel more ready for a redemption arc for a confused motherless teen who just lost his dad than I felt for a spoiled rich jealous guy that was Jack.
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Kyrai
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Feb 14 2016, 11:53 AM
Post #248
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- six
- Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I've been thinking about the Jack/Kayla rape/Jack's redemption story, too. I think it's odd that it is so popular around here, yet there's such a push not to do something similar again. I'm afraid they'll end up making this into some kind of love story. The writers been so disappointing with the pay off on simpler stories, it's hard to imagine them doing this well.
Plus, Jack had been on canvas for quite a while before he raped Kayla, and it was not an insta-redemption. I hated Jack for a long time, not just for the rape but for the sleazeball he was. I think MA's ability to change Jack into the guilt-ridden mess of emotions was key to it working. When he was evil, MA was good at being evil too.
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HOURGLASS85
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Feb 14 2016, 12:19 PM
Post #249
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- esp13
- Feb 14 2016, 11:00 AM
Here's the thing. In my opinion, the best rape story the show did was Kayla's rape by Jack. And part of what made it such a great story is the lead-up and the nearly four years of aftermath. And part of that story is about Jack - somebody who was basically a good guy, but became obsessed with wanting Kayla to love him. That obsession was combined with his jealousy of Steve (and his complete inability to understand why Kayla could love Steve and not him). Throw in his privileged upbringing where he was never denied what he wanted, and his own "monster" within him, and you have the moment where all the darkness took over and something horrible happened.
Setting it up so that you could see the jealousy, anger, and controlling side start to take over - and to see why - didn't provide an excuse for Jack's actions. It provided a context. And that context permeated everything for years. It was why it took a long time for Jack to stop seeing himself as a victim and why everything changed when he finally did.
So, pointing out how the events of the last six months could have affected Chase is not about finding an excuse for what is apparently going to happen. It's simply saying that if they want to tell the story well, and make it a deep and dramatic story, then all of those circumstances should be part of it, not just ignores. Perfectly said. It is the leading up to stories, character development, and playing the beats that lead to your getting to the point where you understand why things happen. Story told that makes you feel the emotion and what the characters are going through. Unfortunately the need for moving stories along faster is causing all these points to be lost along the way and ultimately weaken the impact of the drama.
Sheri Anderson and Pat Falken Smith did it the best. Even Jim Riley did it except it took TOO long to get there. And some of the stories were a bit wacky - still he had great payoffs usually.
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Sindacco
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Feb 14 2016, 12:20 PM
Post #250
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- Amazee-Dayzee
- Feb 13 2016, 11:24 PM
I agree with Hope being raped by Stefano but I don't agree about Hope being raped by John. Wasn't John also being controlled by Stefano when they had sex? No, Stefano didn't control John at the time. John's brain chip was activated by Hope (as Gina), with a little help from Rolf. Stefano was angry when he found out about it, that's why he went to the submarine to confront her. His men threw John into the ocean.
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HOURGLASS85
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Feb 14 2016, 12:33 PM
Post #251
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- six
- Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I've been thinking about the Jack/Kayla rape/Jack's redemption story, too. I think it's odd that it is so popular around here, yet there's such a push not to do something similar again. For me, it's not that I don't want the story. It's more that in the Steve/Kayla/Jack example, you were invested in all three of the characters, they were strong actors that could handle the emotion and fall out of the story. And as esp13 said, the story led you through the emotions of all three characters through the build-up and playing what each was going through. In this story, you have two practically new characters who aren't the strongest of actors and there has been little time to build up the story. I can see it happening considering all the drama that has occurred and certainly there is much to tell in reality with date rape, drugs and so on but I just don't see VJ leading this story. So if all the parts aren't there and you can't pull it off then you shouldn't tell it. Sometimes being uncomfortable watching a story like this can be intriguing and heartfelt but I don't see it here.
This is one of the primary reasons why I never fell for EJAMI. But won't get that started.
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HOURGLASS85
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Feb 14 2016, 12:37 PM
Post #252
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- thepadange
- Feb 14 2016, 11:48 AM
- six
- Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I've been thinking about the Jack/Kayla rape/Jack's redemption story, too. I think it's odd that it is so popular around here, yet there's such a push not to do something similar again.
I'm an European from a country where near 80% of residents consider themselves Roman Catholic :blulaugh: . Never heard of the term. LOL I can't comment on Jack/Kayla rape because for some reason I only remember parts of the aftermath. I don't remember exactly when his redemption arc started either but I remember still hating Jack in 1989. He was as arrogant and manipulative as ever (I mean Jack/Diana/Cal story). I actually feel more ready for a redemption arc for a confused motherless teen who just lost his dad than I felt for a spoiled rich jealous guy that was Jack. Agree with you although Jack also had family issues since I believe both his step Dad (Harper) and father (Duke) which played out on the show had violence issues. Jack was an adult though.
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six
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Feb 14 2016, 12:40 PM
Post #253
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- Kyrai
- Feb 14 2016, 11:53 AM
- six
- Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I've been thinking about the Jack/Kayla rape/Jack's redemption story, too. I think it's odd that it is so popular around here, yet there's such a push not to do something similar again.
I'm afraid they'll end up making this into some kind of love story. The writers been so disappointing with the pay off on simpler stories, it's hard to imagine them doing this well. Plus, Jack had been on canvas for quite a while before he raped Kayla, and it was not an insta-redemption. I hated Jack for a long time, not just for the rape but for the sleazeball he was. I think MA's ability to change Jack into the guilt-ridden mess of emotions was key to it working. When he was evil, MA was good at being evil too. I actually think Josh would do fine with this sort of story. I can completely understand being concerned that the writers wouldn't do a story like this justice, but I don't think the answer is to insist that the show handle this new story in a black and white manner and ignore the connections between Chase/Hope/Ciara and the things that happened in the months before the rape. Do people really want to see a return to more complex storytelling or not?
ETA, I get where people are coming from; questioning whether or not the actors are up to the task, and I agree, but to me that's a separate issue than the viewpoint that I'm questioning.
Edited by six, Feb 14 2016, 12:42 PM.
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thepadange
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Feb 14 2016, 12:54 PM
Post #254
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- nananana7
- Feb 14 2016, 11:28 AM
- thepadange
- Feb 14 2016, 10:56 AM
Must be a cultural thing.
I had to read some of the research summaries to even understand what this phenomenon is about lol.
I have a reply regarding "Catholic guilt", but I'll put it behind spoiler tags because it's long and way off-topic. Spoiler: click to toggle I'm trying to avoid having too many sets of quotes.... Lysie said: But there's a difference in Hope being at fault and Hope feeling guilty.Frivolity commented: Well, since it seems that they've made everyone on this show Catholic at this point, they should all always be feeling guilty. ;) (note the wink at the end of Frivolity's comment.) Thepadange asked: What feeling guilty or not feeling guilty has to do with being Catholic?Lysie's reply was to give this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_guiltThepadange commented: Thanks. The research results sound far from being conclusive though.Lysie said: Conclusive? It's a saying.Thepadange said: Must be a cultural thing. I had to read some of the research summaries to even understand what this phenomenon is about lol.--------------------------------------------- Some thoughts on the idea of "Catholic guilt" ... There's an old Catholic teaching that Adam and Eve's fall in the garden of Eden was the "original sin" of humanity, and all human beings are born stained with this sin. There were also some strict Catholic elementary schools and high schools run by overbearing nuns. They tended to emphasize to the children that they were all sinners. Some children were raised to constantly question if every thought or motive they had was impure. Nuns did lots of scolding and and some corporal punishment. I think the archetypal concept of "original sin" was *supposed to be* a metaphor about human frailty and that nobody's perfect, and we start from wherever we are and try to become better human beings via loving everyone. However some Catholic educators took it literally, that we are all sinners and we have to constantly be scrupulous about being tempted, and thus must overly judge ourselves. Children who were raised that way .... grew up to parent their own children that way. People raised in that environment tend to feel guilty as a default emotional reaction. It is unfortunate that some educators put so much focus on "avoiding sin"... that they forgot the primary mission should focus on "being loving". However, it is important to note that there were many Catholic nuns and educators who didn't focus on the sin/guilt obsession. The problem was that the few teachers who had the obsession ...left an impact on their students. I grew up Catholic and my siblings went to Catholic schools, but we were taught that love and acceptance is very important. My mother wasn't into guilting/shaming us about stuff. And my local parish was quite liberal. And I'm 60 years old. We were aware of the concept of "Catholic guilt" but my family and parish wasn't into that. Furthermore, I think the whole "Catholic guilt" thing was more common in the 1950s and 1960s, and much less relevant nowadays ... but it's still referenced in popular culture because the memories linger. It's become sort of a humorous stereotype. I think the wikipedia article was about an actual statistical study to see if Catholic guilt exists. But that's not the point when someone jokes about it. Frivolity's comment was just a joke, hence the wink. And also a joke about how the Hortons weren't originally Catholic but now seem to be part of Saint Luke's parish. Thanks for you reply. Very enlightening.
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JaimeLannister
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Feb 14 2016, 01:24 PM
Post #255
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- six
- Feb 14 2016, 12:40 PM
- Kyrai
- Feb 14 2016, 11:53 AM
- six
- Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I've been thinking about the Jack/Kayla rape/Jack's redemption story, too. I think it's odd that it is so popular around here, yet there's such a push not to do something similar again.
I'm afraid they'll end up making this into some kind of love story. The writers been so disappointing with the pay off on simpler stories, it's hard to imagine them doing this well. Plus, Jack had been on canvas for quite a while before he raped Kayla, and it was not an insta-redemption. I hated Jack for a long time, not just for the rape but for the sleazeball he was. I think MA's ability to change Jack into the guilt-ridden mess of emotions was key to it working. When he was evil, MA was good at being evil too.
I actually think Josh would do fine with this sort of story. I can completely understand being concerned that the writers wouldn't do a story like this justice, but I don't think the answer is to insist that the show handle this new story in a black and white manner and ignore the connections between Chase/Hope/Ciara and the things that happened in the months before the rape. Do people really want to see a return to more complex storytelling or not? ETA, I get where people are coming from; questioning whether or not the actors are up to the task, and I agree, but to me that's a separate issue than the viewpoint that I'm questioning. I'd totally be here for Chase being redeemed and his perspective being explored, for many reasons, but I have to say I don't think the people who don't care to see that story feel that way because of not wanting to see a complex story. I think it's more about their feelings towards rape. If in the 80s you'd asked the Days audience whether they'd want to see Jack redeemed I can imagine the reply would've been an overwhelming no given the strong attachment people had towards Steve and Kayla, both individually and as a couple. Obviously the writing and acting swayed the audience to become sympathetic towards Jack, however, there are some people who think his redemption was taken too far and infringed upon Kayla's pov. Regardless of how good the writing and acting is (and I agree Jack/Kayla's was one of the best) redeeming someone for rape is understandably a sticking point for many people because of the sensitive nature of the issue and it can feel like the victim's pov is being minimized in favour of the rapist's.
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six
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Feb 14 2016, 02:46 PM
Post #256
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- JaimeLannister
- Feb 14 2016, 01:24 PM
- six
- Feb 14 2016, 12:40 PM
- Kyrai
- Feb 14 2016, 11:53 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I actually think Josh would do fine with this sort of story. I can completely understand being concerned that the writers wouldn't do a story like this justice, but I don't think the answer is to insist that the show handle this new story in a black and white manner and ignore the connections between Chase/Hope/Ciara and the things that happened in the months before the rape. Do people really want to see a return to more complex storytelling or not? ETA, I get where people are coming from; questioning whether or not the actors are up to the task, and I agree, but to me that's a separate issue than the viewpoint that I'm questioning.
I'd totally be here for Chase being redeemed and his perspective being explored, for many reasons, but I have to say I don't think the people who don't care to see that story feel that way because of not wanting to see a complex story. I think it's more about their feelings towards rape. If in the 80s you'd asked the Days audience whether they'd want to see Jack redeemed I can imagine the reply would've been an overwhelming no given the strong attachment people had towards Steve and Kayla, both individually and as a couple. Obviously the writing and acting swayed the audience to become sympathetic towards Jack, however, there are some people who think his redemption was taken too far and infringed upon Kayla's pov. Regardless of how good the writing and acting is (and I agree Jack/Kayla's was one of the best) redeeming someone for rape is understandably a sticking point for many people because of the sensitive nature of the issue and it can feel like the victim's pov is being minimized in favour of the rapist's. My issue isn't with whether or not people want to see Chase redeemed. I don't actually think Chase is interesting enough to be redeemed, and personally, I'd write him out after mining the drama of this story, unless the actor turned out to be very talented. What I mean is that there could potentially be parallels between this story and Jack's - namely that the show didn't sweep away the fact that Jack was a person with connections to the canvas. They looked at what those connections meant to him and to Kayla, and to Steve and to Jo. They did that partially to build up to Jack's redemption, but that doesn't have to be the end result, and it lead to good scenes for all the people in the story. Chase is a boy that Hope brought into her home and vowed to take care of. Someone Ciara has said she thought of as a brother. I wish they wouldn't write a story about rape at all, but if they are, I think it would be a shame to throw all that history out the window and avoid a character driven story in favor of pretending Chase is some random rapist who broke into the house one day and attacked Ciara.
I also imagine that, in the 80s, if you'd asked the audience if they wanted the writers to go scorched-earth with Jack and ignore all the history surrounding him and S&K, people would have said yes, but the audience can speak from experience now. If you didn't like that story, then fair enough, but if you did think it was well done, then there's potentially another opportunity for that on the horizon.
Edited by six, Feb 14 2016, 02:55 PM.
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esp13
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Feb 14 2016, 02:57 PM
Post #257
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- six
- Feb 14 2016, 02:46 PM
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- six
- Feb 14 2016, 12:40 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
I'd totally be here for Chase being redeemed and his perspective being explored, for many reasons, but I have to say I don't think the people who don't care to see that story feel that way because of not wanting to see a complex story. I think it's more about their feelings towards rape. If in the 80s you'd asked the Days audience whether they'd want to see Jack redeemed I can imagine the reply would've been an overwhelming no given the strong attachment people had towards Steve and Kayla, both individually and as a couple. Obviously the writing and acting swayed the audience to become sympathetic towards Jack, however, there are some people who think his redemption was taken too far and infringed upon Kayla's pov. Regardless of how good the writing and acting is (and I agree Jack/Kayla's was one of the best) redeeming someone for rape is understandably a sticking point for many people because of the sensitive nature of the issue and it can feel like the victim's pov is being minimized in favour of the rapist's.
My issue isn't with whether or not people want to see Chase redeemed. I don't actually think Chase is interesting enough to be stay on the canvas, after all this, and personally, I'd write him out after mining the drama of this story, unless the actor turned out to be very talented. What I mean is that there could potentially be parallels between this story and Jack's - namely that the show didn't sweep away the fact that Jack was a person with connections to the canvas. They looked at what those connections meant to him and to Kayla, and to Steve and to Jo. They did that partially to build up to Jack's redemption, but that doesn't have to be the end result, and it lead to good scenes for all the people in the story. Chase is a boy that Hope brought into her home and vowed to take care of. Someone Ciara has said she thought of as a brother. I wish they wouldn't write a story about rape at all, but if they are, I think it would be a shame to throw all that history out the window and avoid a character driven story in favor of pretending Chase is some random rapist who broke into the house one day and attacked Ciara. I also imagine that, in the 80s, if you'd asked the audience if they wanted the writers to go scorched-earth with Jack and ignore all the history surrounding him and S&K, people would have said yes, but the audience can speak from experience now. If you didn't like that story, then fair enough, but if you did think it was well done, then there's potentially another opportunity for that on the horizon. Yes to all of this. Redeeming Chase isn't necessary. Jack wasn't redeemed for a couple of years and there was still a lot of good stuff in the intervening time that connected back to the relationships and connections and mistakes before the rape.
They could not do this story at all and I'd be fine. But if they are, they need to mine it for everything, including the emotions from the pre-existing connections.
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nananana7
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Feb 14 2016, 03:03 PM
Post #258
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- thepadange
- Feb 14 2016, 11:48 AM
- six
- Feb 14 2016, 11:02 AM
It's definitely a cultural thing. I assume you're not an American? It's a well known saying over here.
ETA: This is about Catholic guilt.
I'm an European from a country where near 80% of residents consider themselves Roman Catholic :blulaugh: . Never heard of the term. LOL It might be an Irish-Catholic thing. Here's a 2015 opinion columnist in the newspaper the Irish Independent: http://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/its-time-for-us-to-say-no-to-this-crushing-catholic-guilt-30888307.html
Perhaps in the U.S. it was an Irish-American-Catholic thing, that later evolved into an overall American-Catholic thing in Catholic schools in the USA.
But as I said in my earlier longer post, it's much less prevalent in the USA than it was in the 1950s, due to various factors. FYI, the 2008 study mentioned in wikipedia was specifically about U.S. teens. Here is a better summary of that study: http://news.nd.edu/news/9517-new-study-examines-catholic-guilt-among-us-teens/
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AngelaP
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Feb 14 2016, 03:14 PM
Post #259
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I would be fine with never seeing Chase again after this story line ends. In all the rape story-lines I have seen on soaps, redemption arc or not, I have felt the somewhat strong desire to see only one rapist character continue as a character on their show, that was Powell on OLTL. (OLTL would ruin that by turning Powell into a serial rapist)
I will say this story is a bit abrupt because Dena, IMO, was not going to head in this direction. She did a near complete shift in the story by first-second week of January with all three characters away from the aftermath of the trauma. She probably was not even going to make Chase the one texting Theo. I went from thinking Chase was going to become a serial killer that they should send away fast, with Josh, to thinking him one of the more normal teens, with Dena. In the past week or so, Josh shifted back to the way he was writing the characters and story in Nov/Dec.
While Chase is on the scene and this story is playing, it would be a mistake not to play the rather intricate beats that Josh put down for Hope, Ciara & Chase. What has happened to them and what will happen to each of them and each of their relationships is complicated/layered, it's not cut and dry. I really do hope they don't have Chase take a full on evil turn, I rather they go guilt with him. Playing guilt is the only way I can see Ciara/Chase living under the same roof for more than a week or two after the event.
I don't know how I feel about this from the Andre front, I got to see how they play/word this. He's not going to tell Chase to rape Ciara, the show is not that wack, but... But if it's clear his words dig this kid in deeper to hurting someone/anyone in that family, there also needs to be a redemption leg for Andre. It was fine for him to go after Hope, but neither of those kids did one single thing to him EVER. It's been the other way around.
Edited by AngelaP, Feb 14 2016, 03:17 PM.
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Bright Eyes
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Feb 14 2016, 03:26 PM
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- esp13
- Feb 14 2016, 02:57 PM
- six
- Feb 14 2016, 02:46 PM
- JaimeLannister
- Feb 14 2016, 01:24 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
My issue isn't with whether or not people want to see Chase redeemed. I don't actually think Chase is interesting enough to be stay on the canvas, after all this, and personally, I'd write him out after mining the drama of this story, unless the actor turned out to be very talented. What I mean is that there could potentially be parallels between this story and Jack's - namely that the show didn't sweep away the fact that Jack was a person with connections to the canvas. They looked at what those connections meant to him and to Kayla, and to Steve and to Jo. They did that partially to build up to Jack's redemption, but that doesn't have to be the end result, and it lead to good scenes for all the people in the story. Chase is a boy that Hope brought into her home and vowed to take care of. Someone Ciara has said she thought of as a brother. I wish they wouldn't write a story about rape at all, but if they are, I think it would be a shame to throw all that history out the window and avoid a character driven story in favor of pretending Chase is some random rapist who broke into the house one day and attacked Ciara. I also imagine that, in the 80s, if you'd asked the audience if they wanted the writers to go scorched-earth with Jack and ignore all the history surrounding him and S&K, people would have said yes, but the audience can speak from experience now. If you didn't like that story, then fair enough, but if you did think it was well done, then there's potentially another opportunity for that on the horizon.
Yes to all of this. Redeeming Chase isn't necessary. Jack wasn't redeemed for a couple of years and there was still a lot of good stuff in the intervening time that connected back to the relationships and connections and mistakes before the rape. They could not do this story at all and I'd be fine. But if they are, they need to mine it for everything, including the emotions from the pre-existing connections. Maybe not necessarily with Chase, but it'd be nice if DAYS did something along the lines of Michael Baldwin (Y&R), where the character did horrible things in his first stint, went to prison, and a few years later came back, but not for some haphazard, psychotic revenge.
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