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Wednesday, February 17th episode discussion
Topic Started: Feb 16 2016, 07:14 PM (29,105 Views)
Lovejm


PhoenixRising05
Feb 17 2016, 05:55 PM
Lovejm
Feb 17 2016, 05:06 PM
I think we can link to this. VJ said she met with Albert and Josh about the rape story.

https://twitter.com/soapdigest/status/700078186282016768
This is what I was just asking for. The show needed to do something public to address this and having VJ come out and do this along with a PSA was a good idea.

I figured this was Josh's story but seeing her mention him cements it. It sucks there was no buildup because of the obvious transition from Dena's stuff but I have confidence that Josh and Beth will handle this well.

VJ did do well today and the scenes with Theo were good and the end was staged well.
It's pretty clear to me that the transition to Josh is happening. He was mentioned for Jordi. Now from VJ. There's been visible edits and additions and things coming back up. The money is a good example. We have heard very little about that in two months and it was all J&M talked about for a month or so. Same with Winterthrone getting movement in the past week. The Victor Caroline Maggie stuff. The change in Chad and Abby.
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Ken Adams
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I don't like it but I know that rape stories are a common soap staple, but I just wished the person wasn't Ciara. I still see her as that 9 or 10 year old (or whatever she was) from six months ago. Her and Chase are still those cute little kids in my mind. I guess LB's Ciara just gave me a fondness to her that I just don't want anything bad to happen to her character regardless of who the actress is that's playing her.
Edited by Ken Adams, Feb 17 2016, 07:39 PM.
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esp13
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jane1978
Feb 17 2016, 05:51 PM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 17 2016, 03:49 PM
I do question the choice of the Horton house for this as well. Then again, that is a beat they could really play in the years to come with Ciara overcoming this. If Days plays this right, it could be really good even though it is unnecessary. I have confidence in Griffith and Milstein to write a story like this well based on their track record. I just wish we got the right buildup to it but that is Dena Higley for ya.
I really disagree here. Josh and Dena are both HW as equals that means Josh cannot just start controversial story like this before getting an approval from her as well. And if she made clear she is against it he shouldn´t go over her. It seems everybody here loves to blame Higley for everything and always find some excuses for Josh, but I see him just as arrogant and selfish. If he wanted this story so bad he could simply postpone it and do the proper build up instead of forcing it on as soon as he ousts Higley out.
They are (or were) co-HW. So why do you assume that Josh "forced" this story? Isn't it equally possible that the story was approved (particularly since VJ indicated she spoke to Albert and Josh about "a long time" before it was filmed), and Higley refused to write the build-up for it that was supposed to be there? Why should she be allowed to sabotage a story that was already submitted and, I assume, approved.

And the problem with just postponing a story is that I'm pretty sure there are other elements in other stories that have to match up to this one. If you postpone one, you have to change the others. It's not that easy.
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PhoenixRising05
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jane1978
Feb 17 2016, 05:51 PM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 17 2016, 03:49 PM
I do question the choice of the Horton house for this as well. Then again, that is a beat they could really play in the years to come with Ciara overcoming this. If Days plays this right, it could be really good even though it is unnecessary. I have confidence in Griffith and Milstein to write a story like this well based on their track record. I just wish we got the right buildup to it but that is Dena Higley for ya.
I really disagree here. Josh and Dena are both HW as equals that means Josh cannot just start controversial story like this before getting an approval from her as well. And if she made clear she is against it he shouldn´t go over her. It seems everybody here loves to blame Higley for everything and always find some excuses for Josh, but I see him just as arrogant and selfish. If he wanted this story so bad he could simply postpone it and do the proper build up instead of forcing it on as soon as he ousts Higley out.
Josh isn't perfect either and there were many complaints about him in the Fall over pacing, etc. Granted, the anniversary may have played a huge role in that but still. It's not like this board hasn't had it's share of complaints about Josh when he had control.

Maybe Dena should've gotten approval about half the garbage she pedaled in the past 3 months which damaged quite a few characters (Hope, Rafe, Steve, etc). What about the Steve/Ava stuff, which was controversial as well? Maybe she should've asked Josh for his permission on that. If you want to be fair to both sides and say they are "equals," then the same goes for her too.

Dena made a power play and didn't give a damn about the stories that deserved fallout when she took over nor did she care about the characters she destroyed. This is by far the worst she has ever been because she wrote with MALICE. IMO she was writing to deliberately piss fans and actors off. The actors who got the worst material seemed to be actors that took issue with her writing in the past? No way is that a coincidence.

I'm not making excuses. If it were me, I would've postponed this story and gave it at least a few weeks of buildup. However, the circumstances of this writing transition are not clear. It's obvious the direction is shifting more and more in Griffith's favor but there is still Higley traits in aspects of the writing and maybe they simply couldn't postpone the story for some reason Maybe we are still in a phase where he is rewriting stuff of Dena's and there are specific reasons why this had to happen now. Even if it's his story, there could be compelling reasons. I'm more willing to give someone like him, who has a much better track record of writing character-driven stories and nowhere near the experience of destroying characters and writing garbage, the benefit of the doubt than Dena Higley who is on her third stint writing this show and whose destructive track record at two soaps speaks for itself.
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PhoenixRising05
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esp13
Feb 17 2016, 05:59 PM
jane1978
Feb 17 2016, 05:51 PM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 17 2016, 03:49 PM
I do question the choice of the Horton house for this as well. Then again, that is a beat they could really play in the years to come with Ciara overcoming this. If Days plays this right, it could be really good even though it is unnecessary. I have confidence in Griffith and Milstein to write a story like this well based on their track record. I just wish we got the right buildup to it but that is Dena Higley for ya.
I really disagree here. Josh and Dena are both HW as equals that means Josh cannot just start controversial story like this before getting an approval from her as well. And if she made clear she is against it he shouldn´t go over her. It seems everybody here loves to blame Higley for everything and always find some excuses for Josh, but I see him just as arrogant and selfish. If he wanted this story so bad he could simply postpone it and do the proper build up instead of forcing it on as soon as he ousts Higley out.
They are (or were) co-HW. So why do you assume that Josh "forced" this story? Isn't it equally possible that the story was approved (particularly since VJ indicated she spoke to Albert and Josh about "a long time" before it was filmed), and Higley refused to write the build-up for it that was supposed to be there? Why should she be allowed to sabotage a story that was already submitted and, I assume, approved.

And the problem with just postponing a story is that I'm pretty sure there are other elements in other stories that have to match up to this one. If you postpone one, you have to change the others. It's not that easy.
I should've waited because you said this so much better than me.
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The Room Stops
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PhoenixRising05
Feb 17 2016, 06:04 PM
Dena made a power play and didn't give a damn about the stories that deserved fallout when she took over nor did she care about the characters she destroyed. This is by far the worst she has ever been because she wrote with MALICE. IMO she was writing to deliberately piss fans and actors off. The actors who got the worst material seemed to be actors that took issue with her writing in the past? No way is that a coincidence.

I'm not making excuses. If it were me, I would've postponed this story and gave it at least a few weeks of buildup. However, the circumstances of this writing transition are not clear. It's obvious the direction is shifting more and more in Griffith's favor but there is still Higley traits in aspects of the writing and maybe they simply couldn't postpone the story for some reason Maybe we are still in a phase where he is rewriting stuff of Dena's and there are specific reasons why this had to happen now. Even if it's his story, there could be compelling reasons. I'm more willing to give someone like him, who has a much better track record of writing character-driven stories and nowhere near the experience of destroying characters and writing garbage, the benefit of the doubt than Dena Higley who is on her third stint writing this show and whose destructive track record at two soaps speaks for itself.
Save for the people she thankfully ignored. Sometimes being ignored is a gift. John & Marlena fans thank you for not giving a shit, Higley. Much appreciated.

Also WORD to that last paragraph! The difference is that we have experienced Dena's stuff before. There was a campaign that got her fired because it was destructive and just terrible. We don't have that with Griffith. Higley may be a great writer for Y&R or B&B or GH (I mean, I doubt it, bad writing is bad writing). But for DAYS, she isn't. And we don't know enough about Griffith's stuff for DAYS to judge yet.
Edited by The Room Stops, Feb 17 2016, 06:09 PM.
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Rosebud
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The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:20 PM
lysie
Feb 17 2016, 04:58 PM
This reminds me of when the argument that Sami kidnapped Belle because she was confused comes up.
"But mommy, I was confused! So I kidnapped a tiny infant! But like, she was related to me, so it's less horrible. At least I love her. Sort of. Well, I also despise her existence, but... DADDY COME HUG ME AND LET ME LOOK AT YOU INAPPROPRIATELY!"
:mutley:
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The Room Stops
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Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 06:09 PM
The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:20 PM
lysie
Feb 17 2016, 04:58 PM
This reminds me of when the argument that Sami kidnapped Belle because she was confused comes up.
"But mommy, I was confused! So I kidnapped a tiny infant! But like, she was related to me, so it's less horrible. At least I love her. Sort of. Well, I also despise her existence, but... DADDY COME HUG ME AND LET ME LOOK AT YOU INAPPROPRIATELY!"
:mutley:
Where's the lie? ;) THAT was the creepiest part of that year and a half. Roman and Sami.
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Rosebud
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The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:22 PM
Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 05:11 PM
I don't really get why Andre has been wasting all his time with Chase. If he wasn't drugging him or brainwashing him how can he be sure Chase is going to go and rape or hurt Ciara? And how does this help him get Hope for killing Stefano? It's all so contrived. :rolleyes: Why can't they just write character driven stories?
Did Andre want Chase to rape her? I'm confused. I haven't watched the whole ep yet.


I have no idea. That's why the whole thing is confusing. What exactly does Andre think he's doing with Chase?

Quote:
 
Didn't TP specifically say that Andre is shocked at what Chase does? That he went too far even for that maniac's taste?


What did he want Chase to do? None of it makes sense.

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anzu


Meh, at this point, group project gets one grade in my opinion because I have no way of distinguishing who said and wrote and decided what when conclusively.

If Dena chose not to write the build up for the storyline Josh planned, boohoo, because all I see as a regular viewer is what the "writers" think logically follows. If Josh couldn't tell that tacking on his storyline to the end of Dena's poorly packed wagon would elicit a whole lot of backlash (I really hope he anticipated the backlash at least because good god social media has been ugly today) I haven't any more confidence in him than I do Dena (if she is as against being a team player as this board says). We shall see from the fall out how this all plays out in the long run. So far, Dena can't write a story any better than Josh can pace one is what I'm getting from this regime :shrug:
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Lovejm


The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 06:08 PM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 17 2016, 06:04 PM
Dena made a power play and didn't give a damn about the stories that deserved fallout when she took over nor did she care about the characters she destroyed. This is by far the worst she has ever been because she wrote with MALICE. IMO she was writing to deliberately piss fans and actors off. The actors who got the worst material seemed to be actors that took issue with her writing in the past? No way is that a coincidence.

I'm not making excuses. If it were me, I would've postponed this story and gave it at least a few weeks of buildup. However, the circumstances of this writing transition are not clear. It's obvious the direction is shifting more and more in Griffith's favor but there is still Higley traits in aspects of the writing and maybe they simply couldn't postpone the story for some reason Maybe we are still in a phase where he is rewriting stuff of Dena's and there are specific reasons why this had to happen now. Even if it's his story, there could be compelling reasons. I'm more willing to give someone like him, who has a much better track record of writing character-driven stories and nowhere near the experience of destroying characters and writing garbage, the benefit of the doubt than Dena Higley who is on her third stint writing this show and whose destructive track record at two soaps speaks for itself.
Save for the people she thankfully ignored. Sometimes being ignored is a gift. John & Marlena fans thank you for not giving a shit, Higley. Much appreciated.

Also WORD to that last paragraph! The difference is that we have experienced Dena's stuff before. There was a campaign that got her fired because it was destructive and just terrible. We don't have that with Griffith. Higley may be a great writer for Y&R or B&B or GH (I mean, I doubt it, bad writing is bad writing). But for DAYS, she isn't. And we don't know enough about Griffith's stuff for DAYS to judge yet.
Honestly your first paragraph. Ignoring them was a gift. And a slow reintroduction back into their story last week and Monday is fine by me.
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Rosebud
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Restless84
Feb 17 2016, 05:26 PM
The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:22 PM
Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 05:11 PM
I don't really get why Andre has been wasting all his time with Chase. If he wasn't drugging him or brainwashing him how can he be sure Chase is going to go and rape or hurt Ciara? And how does this help him get Hope for killing Stefano? It's all so contrived. :rolleyes: Why can't they just write character driven stories?
Did Andre want Chase to rape her?
No.
What did he want him to do? Spit in her soda? Trip her? And why does he want Chase to do anything? :drunk:
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CrayCray
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I feel like Josh has a stronger sense of what he wants the show to be tonally. His vision for Days is pretty dark and a bit morbid. I can actually get behind all the tension in scenes and the heavier, more ominous feel. Especially if they insert the sort of humor that was in this episode or the lightness of characters like Theo and Gabi to occasionally break all that tension. Things always feel like they're leading and building to something.

However, I really want more romance and comedy on the show. It desperately needs that. The pacing is awful. Certain things take too long and other beats aren't played out at all. If you're going to have all this darkness (murder of legacy characters, men being tortured hostages, pregnant women kidnapped, and teen rape) then you need to really play out the aftermath of that. The show really fails there. But while it's not perfect, it's an improvement.

Dena is just all over the place. The show is too messy and sloppy. Every headwriter has pets and favorite characters they prefer to write for and find to be more compelling, but she just fawns all over her's.

ETA: I feel like Chase wasn't a fully sketched character at all. I never cared about him because he never seemed to have any sort of presence or a real role on the show. The convos with Andre began to shape him in my own mind as a young man who was preoccupied with trying to fight his own twisted and dark impulses. He wanted to be a nice guy for the sake of Ciara and other's perceptions. But, Andre really fostered his worst qualities and he probably really wanted that outlet to act out and take what he wanted. It was rushed, but not badly done.
Edited by CrayCray, Feb 17 2016, 06:20 PM.
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Rosebud
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The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:30 PM
PALMommy
Feb 17 2016, 05:24 PM
I ask myself often nowadays, "How did THIS show get renewed?" :shrug:
A combination of good/current ratings rising, good morale all around, willingness to be flexible AND being able to show a good prospect for stuff to come that the network liked?
Or they have nothing to replace it with at the moment?
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The Room Stops
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CrayCray
Feb 17 2016, 06:16 PM
Things always feel like they're leading and building to something.

However, I really want more romance and comedy on the show. It desperately needs that. The pacing is awful. Certain things take too long and other beats aren't played out at all. If you're going to have all this darkness (murder of legacy characters, men being tortured hostages, pregnant women kidnapped, and teen rape) then you need to really play out the aftermath of that. The show really fails there. But while it's not perfect, but it's an improvement.

Dena is just all over the place. The show is too messy and sloppy. Every headwriter has pets and favorite characters they prefer to write for and find to be more compelling, but she just fawns all over her's.
That is part of what felt very different. Things mattered. It felt like there was structure and purpose, things would be mentioned and then picked up later.

It for sure does need romance, but then... I've not seen a genuine romance I really liked since... like Nick and Chelsea, so I'll take well written darkness over "shitty attempts at romance that destroys characters and a show I love".

They need a Eugene type. They really do.
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Rosebud
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The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:31 PM
Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 05:23 PM
PetrovaSalvatore
Feb 17 2016, 03:07 PM
I really hate Rafe right now. And Hope for going along with this. Yes Andre deserves it BIG TIME!! But they're supposed to be the "heroes" they're meant to be better than this.
I think it was all Hope's idea, and Rafe is the one going along with it. Not that it matters LOL
Thus, they should both go far far away. Equal responsibility after the fact ;) Or something.
Conspiracy to commit a crime.
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The Room Stops
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Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 06:18 PM
The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:30 PM
PALMommy
Feb 17 2016, 05:24 PM
I ask myself often nowadays, "How did THIS show get renewed?" :shrug:
A combination of good/current ratings rising, good morale all around, willingness to be flexible AND being able to show a good prospect for stuff to come that the network liked?
Or they have nothing to replace it with at the moment?
They would probably rather do five cheap talk shows than a soap, if there was no real interest in keeping it. It doesn't give them much revenue, it's too much effort for something they actually don't want to do, so I'm inclined to believe that they actually do want to keep them. On their terms, of course, but still. And of course, there are people who want DAYS to go far, far away, but there are some fighting for it. But not because they couldn't put something else on the air or because they make so much money on it. So there's a little hope :D

They do need to re-evaluate how they handle things surrounding their soap though, because that needs some improving. Like... overhaul style.
Edited by The Room Stops, Feb 17 2016, 06:30 PM.
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PetrovaSalvatore
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The boy saw the comet and he felt as though his life had meaning.

The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 06:10 PM
Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 06:09 PM
The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:20 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
:mutley:
Where's the lie? ;) THAT was the creepiest part of that year and a half. Roman and Sami.
You guys are too much!! :roflol: :roflol:
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ssedai2
Almost Alpha

Will68
Feb 17 2016, 03:00 PM
It's sad what they are doing to Chase. I liked his character. He was troubled but this is going too far.
I like the actor, too.
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The Room Stops
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Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 06:20 PM
The Room Stops
Feb 17 2016, 05:31 PM
Rosebud
Feb 17 2016, 05:23 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Thus, they should both go far far away. Equal responsibility after the fact ;) Or something.
Conspiracy to commit a crime.
And the crime is "Boring me to death".
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