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Griffith OUT!
Topic Started: Feb 18 2016, 06:01 PM (63,267 Views)
Lovejm


cord08
Feb 20 2016, 11:29 AM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 20 2016, 11:24 AM
Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
It's like 2003 all over again.

Corday used that same excuse to get rid of Brash and Cwickly, who did an amazing job and had good ratings and were praised by both fans and critics. He got rid of them for Higley because the show was going through renewal issues and had to be more budget conscious and he said she had this amazing plan, knew the show from her long history on the writing team, and could keep the show more in line with a budget.

It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now. He just LOVES Higley. No one would keep bringing someone like her back with her track record over and over again unless that was the case.
Exactly. I mean, isn't it telling that she seemingly was not hired by another soap after she was fired in 2011? After he stint at OLTL, I wouldn't be surprised if she was blackballed at ABC.

It's really sad that at this point I'm like, "From a creative standpoint, it would probably be better if my favorite characters were written out just so Higley can't destroy them again." I don't want that to happen for the actors' sake, but man...
Lysie had a great point on Twitter that that didn't even help Marlena the last time. She got awful off camera writing while she was in Switzerland.
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PhoenixRising05
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cord08
Feb 20 2016, 11:23 AM
Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
Maybe, but I don't really understand why that would be. Dena likes to write events -- plot, plot, plot -- like the crash. Events should seemingly cost more money than say more character-driven stuff where you just need two actors and a set.

I guess it could be that Dena doesn't really write for vets, so they can either fire them or give them lower guarantees. UGH.
Eh. The crash was pretty much her only "expensive event" and that was back during Ed Scott. Any other EP and they probably would've been cheap about it and it wouldn't have looked as good.

Her usual events are usually stemming from quick climaxes to stories that have no middle. She starts them and ends them. Something starts in January and then ends by March. That is her thing because she can't sustain a story. She said it herself. She comes up with an idea and then is asked "then what" and has no answer. She needs her writing team to figure out the rest and that is why the writing tanks. She burns out her writing team because she exhausts them and her ideas sometimes may sound good but when she goes into details or tries to make them work and be creative about them, it comes off horribly.

Look back at some of her stories.

Hope getting addicted to drugs after a nasty breakup from Bo or even having a mental breakdown/split personality. Ok, not bad. However, it's sleeping pills and they will make her only be a different person at night and she will be running around mugging men and gambling. Ok, you lost me.

Bo and Hope working on their own to bring down criminals outside the police force. Hmm...interesting, They are bounty hunters battling some random villain of the week. Lost me...

I could go on and on. If Corday can't resist keeping her, keep her on as a story consultant from home. Let her come up with ideas from time to time when no one else can and let the head writers and team iron it all out if they think the idea is worth it and then give her the credit for it. She basically does that anyway. Get some real head writers and let her be in a position where she can influence from time to time if asked. Like she did in Fall when she would get to influence a little here and there while Josh dictated story.
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Lovejm


PhoenixRising05
Feb 20 2016, 11:33 AM
cord08
Feb 20 2016, 11:23 AM
Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
Maybe, but I don't really understand why that would be. Dena likes to write events -- plot, plot, plot -- like the crash. Events should seemingly cost more money than say more character-driven stuff where you just need two actors and a set.

I guess it could be that Dena doesn't really write for vets, so they can either fire them or give them lower guarantees. UGH.
Eh. The crash was pretty much her only "expensive event" and that was back during Ed Scott. Any other EP and they probably would've been cheap about it and it wouldn't have looked as good.

Her usual events are usually stemming from quick climaxes to stories that have no middle. She starts them and ends them. Something starts in January and then ends by March. That is her thing because she can't sustain a story. She said it herself. She comes up with an idea and then is asked "then what" and has no answer. She needs her writing team to figure out the rest and that is why the writing tanks. She burns out her writing team because she exhausts them and her ideas sometimes may sound good but when she goes into details or tries to make them work and be creative about them, it comes off horribly.

Look back at some of her stories.

Hope getting addicted to drugs after a nasty breakup from Bo or even having a mental breakdown/split personality. Ok, not bad. However, it's sleeping pills and they will make her only be a different person at night and she will be running around mugging men and gambling. Ok, you lost me.

Bo and Hope working on their own to bring down criminals outside the police force. Hmm...interesting, They are bounty hunters battling some random villain of the week. Lost me...

I could go on and on. If Corday can't resist keeping her, keep her on as a story consultant from home. Let her come up with ideas from time to time when no one else can and let the head writers and team iron it all out if they think the idea is worth it and then give her the credit for it. She basically does that anyway. Get some real head writers and let her be in a position where she can influence from time to time if asked. Like she did in Fall when she would get to influence a little here and there while Josh dictated story.
And that the big concern if this 'team' sticks. She will obliterate this new co. The only reason the fall worked was because she had something to counteract her.
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Sindacco
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Luce
Feb 19 2016, 12:14 PM
anzu
Feb 19 2016, 11:11 AM
KweenBoda
Feb 19 2016, 10:30 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
This is something I have heard different things about for as long as I've glanced at a message board- did Higley not essentially "create" Sonny (not as a character but as an adult we would see onscreen)? I know she wasn't there during Wilson but there seems to be a discrepancy about her contribution to Sonny's character at least on every board/page I've seen and I would love some clarification if possible :) .
Based on when Sonny showed up (June 2011) Wikipedia says it was Higley/Whitesell writing that brought him back. Then Higley was on her own for a REALLY short stint without Whitesell, and then MarDar began writing in August 2011. I don't know what the actual gap is between writing and airdate, or when their first stuff would've started airing though. Sonny went missing completely in the spring of 2011, so I'd think it was MarDar that was responsible for Sonny's absence since the stuff that was airing then would've been 8 months after MarDar began writing.

Basically, we haven't seen Higley write any romance for Sonny, but she did create adult Sonny I guess, and involved him in family stuff for a while I think before MarDar took over and he disappeared.
No, Whitesell was fired before Sonny debuted.
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cord08
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Lovejm
Feb 20 2016, 11:36 AM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 20 2016, 11:33 AM
cord08
Feb 20 2016, 11:23 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Eh. The crash was pretty much her only "expensive event" and that was back during Ed Scott. Any other EP and they probably would've been cheap about it and it wouldn't have looked as good.

Her usual events are usually stemming from quick climaxes to stories that have no middle. She starts them and ends them. Something starts in January and then ends by March. That is her thing because she can't sustain a story. She said it herself. She comes up with an idea and then is asked "then what" and has no answer. She needs her writing team to figure out the rest and that is why the writing tanks. She burns out her writing team because she exhausts them and her ideas sometimes may sound good but when she goes into details or tries to make them work and be creative about them, it comes off horribly.

Look back at some of her stories.

Hope getting addicted to drugs after a nasty breakup from Bo or even having a mental breakdown/split personality. Ok, not bad. However, it's sleeping pills and they will make her only be a different person at night and she will be running around mugging men and gambling. Ok, you lost me.

Bo and Hope working on their own to bring down criminals outside the police force. Hmm...interesting, They are bounty hunters battling some random villain of the week. Lost me...

I could go on and on. If Corday can't resist keeping her, keep her on as a story consultant from home. Let her come up with ideas from time to time when no one else can and let the head writers and team iron it all out if they think the idea is worth it and then give her the credit for it. She basically does that anyway. Get some real head writers and let her be in a position where she can influence from time to time if asked. Like she did in Fall when she would get to influence a little here and there while Josh dictated story.
And that the big concern if this 'team' sticks. She will obliterate this new co. The only reason the fall worked was because she had something to counteract her.
Yep. I actually kind of feel bad for the guy. This is his first head writing gig, so he's probably going to be a bit overwhelmed in the first place. Add Dena's crazy antics on top of it, and he'll probably be running for the hills in three months if he isn't already fired by that time.

And if this is, in any way, a result of needing to pay less for two head writers, why not just let Josh be a solo head? The man seemed to have his shit together, was invested, and seemed well liked by the cast and crew. I mean, what more can you ask for?

Now you have a writer who lives out of state, is known to be unstable, and is knowingly loathed by many on the cast.

Ken is an idiot.
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Laur


There's an anti-Higley petition on Twitter. It already has over one hundred signatures. Sign it and spread the word to other Days fans who want their voices heard: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/get-dena-higley-out
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Luce


Sindacco
Feb 20 2016, 11:44 AM
Luce
Feb 19 2016, 12:14 PM
anzu
Feb 19 2016, 11:11 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Based on when Sonny showed up (June 2011) Wikipedia says it was Higley/Whitesell writing that brought him back. Then Higley was on her own for a REALLY short stint without Whitesell, and then MarDar began writing in August 2011. I don't know what the actual gap is between writing and airdate, or when their first stuff would've started airing though. Sonny went missing completely in the spring of 2011, so I'd think it was MarDar that was responsible for Sonny's absence since the stuff that was airing then would've been 8 months after MarDar began writing.

Basically, we haven't seen Higley write any romance for Sonny, but she did create adult Sonny I guess, and involved him in family stuff for a while I think before MarDar took over and he disappeared.
No, Whitesell was fired before Sonny debuted.
Oh. I guess you are right. I was assuming at first that headwriter's dates were listed by when they are actually employed, but that doesn't make any sense once you get down to the current regime since Higley/Griffith material started airing the day after Sonny left on the 18th of August. So I had that wrong, it must be by material air date.

Wikipedia - Days of Our Lives Producers and Headwriters
Quote:
 
October 13, 2008 - June 13, 2011 Dena Higley and Christopher Whitesell

Wikipedia - Sonny Kiriakis
Quote:
 
Created by: Dena Higley and Christopher Whitesell
^ Guess that needs to be edited on Sonny's page.
Edited by Luce, Feb 20 2016, 12:26 PM.
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thepadange
Member Avatar


Luce
Feb 20 2016, 12:24 PM
Sindacco
Feb 20 2016, 11:44 AM
Luce
Feb 19 2016, 12:14 PM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepcompletely in the spring of 2011, so I'd think it was MarDar that was responsible for Sonny's absence since the stuff that was airing then would've been 8 months after MarDar began writing.

Basically, we haven't seen Higley write any romance for Sonny, but she did create adult Sonny I guess, and involved him in family stuff for a while I think before MarDar took over and he disappeared.
No, Whitesell was fired before Sonny debuted.
Oh. I guess you are right. I was assuming at first that headwriter's dates were listed by when they are actually employed, but that doesn't make any sense once you get down to the current regime since Higley/Griffith material started airing the day after Sonny left on the 18th of August. So I had that wrong, it must be by material air date.

Wikipedia - Days of Our Lives Producers and Headwriters
Quote:
 
October 13, 2008 - June 13, 2011 Dena Higley and Christopher Whitesell

Wikipedia - Sonny Kiriakis
Quote:
 
Created by: Dena Higley and Christopher Whitesell
^ Guess that needs to be edited on Sonny's page.
Just checked Jason's page, and Whitesell isn't listed as a HW prior to 2012. Maybe he was co-HW and Dena was HW when they were working together?

I wonder what positions are Dena and Ryan in now? Both co-HWs or is Dena HW?



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lysie


thepadange
Feb 20 2016, 11:12 AM
cord08
Feb 20 2016, 10:43 AM
thepadange
Feb 20 2016, 03:22 AM

Quoting limited to 3 levels deepHowever
And Lysie and Michael seemed to refute that. At this point, I trust them more. :shrug:
I thought they were saying there was no need to worry about the renewal and they were right.

As it makes perfect sense for NBC to shorten the gap between taping and airing I'm intent to believe it was NBC's demand. I don't see them doing it on their own initiative.

Being off in March isn't going to accomplish much. I do think they want to shorten that time, but I don't think it has anything to do with NBC.
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The Room Stops
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Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
Quality over quantity, I say!
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The Room Stops
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PhoenixRising05
Feb 20 2016, 11:33 AM
cord08
Feb 20 2016, 11:23 AM
Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
Maybe, but I don't really understand why that would be. Dena likes to write events -- plot, plot, plot -- like the crash. Events should seemingly cost more money than say more character-driven stuff where you just need two actors and a set.

I guess it could be that Dena doesn't really write for vets, so they can either fire them or give them lower guarantees. UGH.
Eh. The crash was pretty much her only "expensive event" and that was back during Ed Scott. Any other EP and they probably would've been cheap about it and it wouldn't have looked as good.

Her usual events are usually stemming from quick climaxes to stories that have no middle. She starts them and ends them. Something starts in January and then ends by March. That is her thing because she can't sustain a story. She said it herself. She comes up with an idea and then is asked "then what" and has no answer. She needs her writing team to figure out the rest and that is why the writing tanks. She burns out her writing team because she exhausts them and her ideas sometimes may sound good but when she goes into details or tries to make them work and be creative about them, it comes off horribly.

Look back at some of her stories.

Hope getting addicted to drugs after a nasty breakup from Bo or even having a mental breakdown/split personality. Ok, not bad. However, it's sleeping pills and they will make her only be a different person at night and she will be running around mugging men and gambling. Ok, you lost me.

Bo and Hope working on their own to bring down criminals outside the police force. Hmm...interesting, They are bounty hunters battling some random villain of the week. Lost me...

I could go on and on. If Corday can't resist keeping her, keep her on as a story consultant from home. Let her come up with ideas from time to time when no one else can and let the head writers and team iron it all out if they think the idea is worth it and then give her the credit for it. She basically does that anyway. Get some real head writers and let her be in a position where she can influence from time to time if asked. Like she did in Fall when she would get to influence a little here and there while Josh dictated story.
In someone's capable hands, her ideas would be just fine. Bo and Hope being PIs? Great idea! Not as it was written. It was dumb. Taking John's memories away after an accident, and having him get to know Marlena again? AMAZING! Nope, didn't turn out amazing.

She can write post it notes full of ideas... she can't produce good soap from them. Someone else might be able to though... one of them just left the show.
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granolagirl
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#SorryNotSorry

Kriss4
Feb 20 2016, 07:47 AM
Ava, as written, is a plot device. She's a character with no redeeming character traits, whose actions fail to endear her to the audience. I'm not just talking about Steve and Kayla fans, either. Negative reaction to Ava is, for the most part, audience wide. Sure, there are Tamara fans who adore her, and small pockets of Ava fans here and there, but there are a lot of people in the audience who just despise her and want her gone.

It's not Tamara's fault. But...how would the audience in general begin to love a character that's so self-serving? Who lies? Manipulates a kid? Forces a man to sleep with her to save his fiancé? Tapes that happening without his knowledge or permission, sending it to said fiancé? Some villains we love. But Ava hasn't been given reasons that make many agree with her actions.

Ava is a predator. It's plain to see. So instead of looking forward to her return, many dreaded it, and given what's happened, I guess their reactions were on the money.
Many soap characters who do terrible things are beloved. But the story has to do the work of endearing them to us. Ava has almost been like a cartoon villain this time. We still don't know why she chose to come back and do this now. Her only motivation is a sexual obsession with Steve from a relationship that was over decades ago. Even her dead baby played more like a poorly plotted plot point, instead of something that could have given her character some needed depth.

None of this is about TB... and even though I hated the rape part of this story, the story itself has gotten better since then, because it finally picked a direction and a focus. But it hasn't invested in Ava at all.
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Jason47
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thepadange
Feb 20 2016, 12:46 PM
Just checked Jason's page, and Whitesell isn't listed as a HW prior to 2012. Maybe he was co-HW and Dena was HW when they were working together?

I wonder what positions are Dena and Ryan in now? Both co-HWs or is Dena HW?



He was a co-head, not head writer, from 10/13/08-6/13/11.

He was always listed on a different slate than Dena in the credits:

Written by: Dena Higley
Christopher Whitesell
Rick Draughon, Renee Godelia, Jeanne Marie Ford, Lisa Seidman, Fran Myers
Cydney Kelley, John Newman, Richard Culliton, David Cherrill

The way NBC's statement was written, sounds like Dena and Ryan are both head writers:
"Days of our Lives is pleased to announce that staff writer Ryan Quan has joined co-head writer Dena Higley to form a new head writing team."

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ShaneDOOLFan
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[twitter=FairyMay9/status/700866461623910400]


this would be great for the campaign.
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CrisT


I'm peeping back in the forum because I was curious how things have been going since I left (right after Will's funeral). And I've been reading everything everyone's been saying in this thread.

I had to leave back then because I was so sad and disappointed and I had little faith in what the show would do next. Sooo... just wondered...

1) Is now is a good time to come back? (I realize I'll get varied response, haha)

If I'm getting it right, what's on air now is Josh Griffith and Beth Milstein's work, which consensus here seems to say is better that Dena Higley's. Making it sound like I maybe could give it a chance. Of course now with the big news Higley Back, Griffith Out, I guess that means possibly I'll enjoy the show for 5-6 months, then who knows, and be warned I'll probably hate it starting in September (if opinions here are anything to go by).

2) Is there anything I missed that perhaps I should try to watch? Like if I'm missing something huge I should at least get a recap of?

3) Is it possible to tell if it was Higley or Griffith that ended the Will Horton story so badly? And wrote that Sonny/Paul conversation literally over Will's dead body?

I probably can forgive a lot of errors from October and before but I'd really like to know the answer to that question if possible. At this point, I see the show itself is in some disarray, so I guess it's amazing they manage to do as well as they do and produce entertainment at all. So far be it from me to re-hash my great disappointment now (although I did wish for their doom for a few weeks, lol).

I guess the point of my asking is, if it was Higley, I'll join in on the great protest you guys are starting.
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Mitchapalooza
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^ My face watching DAYS

cord08
Feb 20 2016, 11:29 AM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 20 2016, 11:24 AM
Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
It's like 2003 all over again.

Corday used that same excuse to get rid of Brash and Cwickly, who did an amazing job and had good ratings and were praised by both fans and critics. He got rid of them for Higley because the show was going through renewal issues and had to be more budget conscious and he said she had this amazing plan, knew the show from her long history on the writing team, and could keep the show more in line with a budget.

It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now. He just LOVES Higley. No one would keep bringing someone like her back with her track record over and over again unless that was the case.
Exactly. I mean, isn't it telling that she seemingly was not hired by another soap after she was fired in 2011? After he stint at OLTL, I wouldn't be surprised if she was blackballed at ABC.

It's really sad that at this point I'm like, "From a creative standpoint, it would probably be better if my favorite characters were written out just so Higley can't destroy them again." I don't want that to happen for the actors' sake, but man...
Dont think that just because she writes out your favourite characters that they are suddenly immune or safe from Dena's poisonous pen.....no character past or present, on screen or not is safe from her destruction,.

Look how badly she trashed Marlena and John, but especially Marlena, when they were both off screen when DH and DDH were fired back in the last 2000's.
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PhoenixRising05
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ShaneDOOLFan
Feb 20 2016, 02:35 PM
[twitter=FairyMay9/status/700866461623910400]


this would be great for the campaign.
This is really really good.

Everyone involved should use this or something like it. Gets all the key points across.
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ssedai2
Almost Alpha

Thanks Daysfanatic for telling us what happened.

Ken Corday is the poorest businessman on the planet.
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Sindacco
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PhoenixRising05
Feb 20 2016, 11:24 AM
Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
It's like 2003 all over again.

Corday used that same excuse to get rid of Brash and Cwickly, who did an amazing job and had good ratings and were praised by both fans and critics. He got rid of them for Higley because the show was going through renewal issues and had to be more budget conscious and he said she had this amazing plan, knew the show from her long history on the writing team, and could keep the show more in line with a budget.

It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now. He just LOVES Higley. No one would keep bringing someone like her back with her track record over and over again unless that was the case.
This reminded me of how Corday in his book praised Higley's work in 2003, when in fact the ratings crashed during her five months as head writer.

Posted Image
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Lovejm


Sindacco
Feb 20 2016, 03:25 PM
PhoenixRising05
Feb 20 2016, 11:24 AM
Hugo
Feb 20 2016, 11:16 AM
I bet what Josh is writing is more expensive to produce that what Dena is writing and that played in her favour, especially if NBC asked them to lower the license fee again in January.
It's like 2003 all over again.

Corday used that same excuse to get rid of Brash and Cwickly, who did an amazing job and had good ratings and were praised by both fans and critics. He got rid of them for Higley because the show was going through renewal issues and had to be more budget conscious and he said she had this amazing plan, knew the show from her long history on the writing team, and could keep the show more in line with a budget.

It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now. He just LOVES Higley. No one would keep bringing someone like her back with her track record over and over again unless that was the case.
This reminded me of how Corday in his book praised Higley's work in 2003, when in fact the ratings crashed during her five months as head writer.

Posted Image
Flourishing? What the hell?
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