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Friday, February 26th Episode Discussion
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Topic Started: Feb 25 2016, 06:41 PM (19,333 Views)
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nananana7
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Feb 27 2016, 08:29 PM
Post #401
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Aiden (with Stefano's knowledge/approval) ordered a hit on Hope (via Aiden).
The person or persons who order the hit ... are just as responsible as the hitman.
Therefore, unbeknownst to Hope, Aiden/Stefano had almost succeeded in brutally killing her, just a few months ago. So there's some irony in her sudden thought that maybe Stefano wasn't guilty of anything.
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AngelaP
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Feb 27 2016, 08:36 PM
Post #402
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- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 08:23 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 27 2016, 08:16 PM
- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 08:08 PM
Andre blackmailed Aiden into being a "hitman" -- to kill Hope.
I have a question: Did Stefano know that Andre ordered the hit on Hope? Was Stefano complicit in the crime?
(I focused more on the non-murder storylines, and didn't focus on the murder plots, so I honestly don't know.)
Yes, Stefano knew Andre had Aidren try to kill Hope. He was in the room when they had their discussions.
Thank you. They were doing the rounds the night of the wedding to celebrate, an anonymous wreath with RIP and "painting the town"
Andre: So, when we wake up tomorrow morning... Stefano: Uh-huh. Andre: Hope Brady will have become the latest victim of the necktie killer, and Chad will be in the clear. Shall we party? Stefano: [Laughs] I tell you what we do, all right? Andre: What? Stefano: Let us go paint the town red, huh? Shall we do that? Andre: Absolutely
Hope: You know, I can't believe tonight is the night. Everything is gonna change for us. Aiden: Yeah. That's an understatement. Stefano: [Chuckles] Victor: Looks like you made a wrong turn, Stefano. Stefano: My friend, this town is my home, huh? I am entitled to celebrate tonight just like everyone else is. Andre: The bicentennial committee didn't seem to have any disdain towards the last check we sent them. Maggie: You're wrong about that. That check was not cashed. And it won't be. Victor: So why don't you boys just jump into the Batmobile and hit the road? Andre: You're wrong about us. All of you. And your righteous indignation-- when Chad is cleared, and he will be, we'll settle our debts with a lot of you. Victor: Which part of "get out" do you not understand? Rafe: You wanna leave on your own, or you wanna do this the hard way? Andre: This is a public place. Stefano: Andre, it's all right. We don't need to stay. [Chuckles] Andre: Look, our sole purpose was coming here tonight to wish the bride-to-be the best of everything. Stefano: Ah. Hope: To hell with your wishes. Stefano: Oh, you never change. Roman: Stefano, that was not a good idea. Stefano: It's all right. We're going. Many happy returns, darling.
Andre: Ah, the good people of Salem. They never disappoint. Stefano: Ah, for sure, for sure. All I wanted to do was to say a proper good-bye to hope. Now that I have, all right, I am going to bed. Yes, indeed. Andre: Sweet dreams. I'm gonna stay up for a while. There's just a couple things I need to sort out.
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Half Halt
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Feb 27 2016, 08:55 PM
Post #403
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- AngelaP
- Feb 27 2016, 08:36 PM
- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 08:23 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 27 2016, 08:16 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Thank you.
They were doing the rounds the night of the wedding to celebrate, an anonymous wreath with RIP and "painting the town" Andre: So, when we wake up tomorrow morning... Stefano: Uh-huh. Andre: Hope Brady will have become the latest victim of the necktie killer, and Chad will be in the clear. Shall we party? Stefano: [Laughs] I tell you what we do, all right? Andre: What? Stefano: Let us go paint the town red, huh? Shall we do that? Andre: Absolutely Hope: You know, I can't believe tonight is the night. Everything is gonna change for us. Aiden: Yeah. That's an understatement. Stefano: [Chuckles] Victor: Looks like you made a wrong turn, Stefano. Stefano: My friend, this town is my home, huh? I am entitled to celebrate tonight just like everyone else is. Andre: The bicentennial committee didn't seem to have any disdain towards the last check we sent them. Maggie: You're wrong about that. That check was not cashed. And it won't be. Victor: So why don't you boys just jump into the Batmobile and hit the road? Andre: You're wrong about us. All of you. And your righteous indignation-- when Chad is cleared, and he will be, we'll settle our debts with a lot of you. Victor: Which part of "get out" do you not understand? Rafe: You wanna leave on your own, or you wanna do this the hard way? Andre: This is a public place. Stefano: Andre, it's all right. We don't need to stay. [Chuckles] Andre: Look, our sole purpose was coming here tonight to wish the bride-to-be the best of everything. Stefano: Ah. Hope: To hell with your wishes. Stefano: Oh, you never change. Roman: Stefano, that was not a good idea. Stefano: It's all right. We're going. Many happy returns, darling. Andre: Ah, the good people of Salem. They never disappoint. Stefano: Ah, for sure, for sure. All I wanted to do was to say a proper good-bye to hope. Now that I have, all right, I am going to bed. Yes, indeed. Andre: Sweet dreams. I'm gonna stay up for a while. There's just a couple things I need to sort out. Thank you for posting this.
Hope did a good thing. A very very good thing. It's unfortunate she didn't take Andre out as well.
Stefano basically begged her to shoot him. LOL
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Half Halt
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Feb 27 2016, 08:59 PM
Post #404
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- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 08:29 PM
Aiden (with Stefano's knowledge/approval) ordered a hit on Hope (via Aiden).
The person or persons who order the hit ... are just as responsible as the hitman.
Therefore, unbeknownst to Hope, Aiden/Stefano had almost succeeded in brutally killing her, just a few months ago. So there's some irony in her sudden thought that maybe Stefano wasn't guilty of anything. I don't think Hope thinks Stefano wasn't guilty of "anything", just not kidnapping and torturing Bo. This time......
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Boisthebest
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Feb 27 2016, 10:00 PM
Post #405
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- AngelaP
- Feb 27 2016, 08:36 PM
- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 08:23 PM
- Restless84
- Feb 27 2016, 08:16 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Thank you.
They were doing the rounds the night of the wedding to celebrate, an anonymous wreath with RIP and "painting the town" Andre: So, when we wake up tomorrow morning... Stefano: Uh-huh. Andre: Hope Brady will have become the latest victim of the necktie killer, and Chad will be in the clear. Shall we party? Stefano: [Laughs] I tell you what we do, all right? Andre: What? Stefano: Let us go paint the town red, huh? Shall we do that? Andre: Absolutely Hope: You know, I can't believe tonight is the night. Everything is gonna change for us. Aiden: Yeah. That's an understatement. Stefano: [Chuckles] Victor: Looks like you made a wrong turn, Stefano. Stefano: My friend, this town is my home, huh? I am entitled to celebrate tonight just like everyone else is. Andre: The bicentennial committee didn't seem to have any disdain towards the last check we sent them. Maggie: You're wrong about that. That check was not cashed. And it won't be. Victor: So why don't you boys just jump into the Batmobile and hit the road? Andre: You're wrong about us. All of you. And your righteous indignation-- when Chad is cleared, and he will be, we'll settle our debts with a lot of you. Victor: Which part of "get out" do you not understand? Rafe: You wanna leave on your own, or you wanna do this the hard way? Andre: This is a public place. Stefano: Andre, it's all right. We don't need to stay. [Chuckles] Andre: Look, our sole purpose was coming here tonight to wish the bride-to-be the best of everything. Stefano: Ah. Hope: To hell with your wishes. Stefano: Oh, you never change. Roman: Stefano, that was not a good idea. Stefano: It's all right. We're going. Many happy returns, darling. Andre: Ah, the good people of Salem. They never disappoint. Stefano: Ah, for sure, for sure. All I wanted to do was to say a proper good-bye to hope. Now that I have, all right, I am going to bed. Yes, indeed. Andre: Sweet dreams. I'm gonna stay up for a while. There's just a couple things I need to sort out. Thank you!! :hail: :hail: :hail:
So over the "Stefano was an old, feeble man in a wheelchair..." Stefano was evil and he deserved from Hope, from Marlena, from John, Bo, Steve, Kayla, Caroline and half of Salem everything Hope did and then some....which was quite humane compared to what he did to her and her friends and loved ones.
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Boisthebest
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Feb 27 2016, 10:11 PM
Post #406
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- laurondo
- Feb 27 2016, 05:55 PM
- KLK
- Feb 27 2016, 05:18 PM
- thepadange
- Feb 27 2016, 04:33 PM
The thing is, it's a soap and this allows some of us to like/love "villains" (we would never like IRL) be it because we like actors playing them or for any other reason. I don't feel bad for liking a villain on a soap but I have to admit I never liked (or rooted for) villains when I was younger. For some reason I started liking them in my 30s lol. I wish we had more gray characters instead of cartoonish villains though. I hate when they make a character that could be potentially gray do horrible things, like rape or kill someone.
For the most part I prefer the bad characters, but I want them well written, and I agree I prefer them gray and not cartoon characters. I don't want them to be all bad and I want to see what makes them tick, why they're motivated to do the bad things that they do.
This! Bad/gray characters are more interesting. :shrug: I think that's partly the reason why RSW became so talked about once he turned into the serial killer. He was boring as hell as the good guy. For some that (liking the villains) may be true. Has never been so for me. I prefer "true" gray characters, in the human way. I think most human beings are gray.....and for me that means we struggle with issues rather than see absolutes. I liked Bo Brady from the beginning because, besides PR's hot looks, Bo Brady was edgy in a BELIEVABLE way. To me, Andre and Stefano are really not believable villains. Aside from the superpowers and the ability to return from the dead, transport people via flying coffin, build their own volcano, which were cartoonish, their deeds were so way over the top....torture and brainwashing and yet Stefano's offspring (Lexi, Ej), knowing what Stefano had done to others, allowed their children near him. NOT believable.
When soaps made bad guys more than just relationship manipulators, con-men like Doug, they were telling the audience that it is all make believe so we can skip realism and give you rapists as romantic heroes. So my thing is this: IF those fans who enjoy villains, get the "but it is not real....and I would never cheer for a (rapist, drug dealer) in real life" pass, then fans of the protagonists also get the "I would never want a cop, or any good guy in real life crossing the line" pass. ;) ;) ;)
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BeeBee
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Feb 27 2016, 10:16 PM
Post #407
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If the "good guys" can shoot and kill an unarmed wheel chair bound old man,cover up his murder,then frame someone for a murder committed by them,in my opinion,the term "good guys" has lost its meaning.
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Boisthebest
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Feb 27 2016, 10:22 PM
Post #408
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- Kyrai
- Feb 27 2016, 08:18 AM
- KweenBoda
- Feb 26 2016, 10:57 PM
- Boisthebest
- Feb 26 2016, 10:40 PM
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Good guys aren't supposed to murder and cover it up..no matter the provocation. And now making Roman a corrupt cop is disgusting. And yeah it's not real but a soap opera, I get that. But when good guys cross the line they become villains and that is not supposed to happen. You end up with a soap full of bad guys. And I'm glad too see a little karma hitting Hope with that creepy phone call. :blulaugh:
To me it's more once you go this route of letting the police decide when it's okay to murder someone, you've lost basic integrity the show needs. It's totally different if someone is threatening you, and you kill in self defense. This was NOT self defense. Hope barged into Stefano's home and murdered him. He has done awful things in the past, but he wasn't threatening her life then. If Rafe had arrested her, I would have been fine with Hope being declared temporarily insane and getting treatment. But no, Rafe gets to decide that it really wasn't a crime to kill Stefano, and he and Hope cover it up, and now Roman agrees. So three cops are now taking the law into their own hands. In addition, they've framed Andre. I agree for all Andre has done, he should have been locked away a long time ago, but putting anyone away shouldn't be based on cops forging evidence. But at least now anytime the writers write themselves into a corner, they can just have the corrupt Salem PD do whatever they want. They're above the law so now they can go after anyone they want with impunity. Great, just what I want to see in my soap. So much for daytime drama. The writers have an easy way out of every story. Hope can just shoot Chase now for raping Ciara. Integrity???? What integrity? When a torturing, sadistic old man, who has had people killed, has raped, has kidnapped and manipulated, has a family WHO KNOW what and who he is, give his grandchildren time with him as if he is just another grandfather, integrity is long gone.
Sorry, I will not accept that there are different sets of reality for the villains and good guys, cops or otherwise. If the villains get to play in a fantasy world, so do the good guys. Can't have it both ways.
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lysie
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Feb 27 2016, 10:38 PM
Post #409
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- Boisthebest
- Feb 27 2016, 10:00 PM
- AngelaP
- Feb 27 2016, 08:36 PM
- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 08:23 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
They were doing the rounds the night of the wedding to celebrate, an anonymous wreath with RIP and "painting the town" Andre: So, when we wake up tomorrow morning... Stefano: Uh-huh. Andre: Hope Brady will have become the latest victim of the necktie killer, and Chad will be in the clear. Shall we party? Stefano: [Laughs] I tell you what we do, all right? Andre: What? Stefano: Let us go paint the town red, huh? Shall we do that? Andre: Absolutely Hope: You know, I can't believe tonight is the night. Everything is gonna change for us. Aiden: Yeah. That's an understatement. Stefano: [Chuckles] Victor: Looks like you made a wrong turn, Stefano. Stefano: My friend, this town is my home, huh? I am entitled to celebrate tonight just like everyone else is. Andre: The bicentennial committee didn't seem to have any disdain towards the last check we sent them. Maggie: You're wrong about that. That check was not cashed. And it won't be. Victor: So why don't you boys just jump into the Batmobile and hit the road? Andre: You're wrong about us. All of you. And your righteous indignation-- when Chad is cleared, and he will be, we'll settle our debts with a lot of you. Victor: Which part of "get out" do you not understand? Rafe: You wanna leave on your own, or you wanna do this the hard way? Andre: This is a public place. Stefano: Andre, it's all right. We don't need to stay. [Chuckles] Andre: Look, our sole purpose was coming here tonight to wish the bride-to-be the best of everything. Stefano: Ah. Hope: To hell with your wishes. Stefano: Oh, you never change. Roman: Stefano, that was not a good idea. Stefano: It's all right. We're going. Many happy returns, darling. Andre: Ah, the good people of Salem. They never disappoint. Stefano: Ah, for sure, for sure. All I wanted to do was to say a proper good-bye to hope. Now that I have, all right, I am going to bed. Yes, indeed. Andre: Sweet dreams. I'm gonna stay up for a while. There's just a couple things I need to sort out.
Thank you!! :hail: :hail: :hail: So over the "Stefano was an old, feeble man in a wheelchair..." Stefano was evil and he deserved from Hope, from Marlena, from John, Bo, Steve, Kayla, Caroline and half of Salem everything Hope did and then some....which was quite humane compared to what he did to her and her friends and loved ones. It's not that I don't agree that he deserved worse. But the way it played out was horrible. There could have been a good story in Hope getting the wrong man. They just didn't hit anywhere near that story, and the result is that it made Hope look pathetic...and not in a soapy, dramatic way. I do think they salvaged some of it on Friday. Time will tell if they'll be able to salvage all of it, but I doubt they will. Where they really screwed up was having her confess to the other murder and then frame Andre. And again...I'm not saying Andre doesn't deserve that, too. It just wasn't done well.
And wanting something different from the good guys than the bad guys isn't living in different realities. It's thinking more highly of some characters than others. It's believing that some characters shouldn't have to sink to the lows as others. It's believing that good can triumph over evil. Having an occasional slip up is one thing. That can be dramatic. But sometimes Days takes it too far.
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BeeBee
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Feb 27 2016, 10:59 PM
Post #410
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- lysie
- Feb 27 2016, 10:38 PM
- Boisthebest
- Feb 27 2016, 10:00 PM
- AngelaP
- Feb 27 2016, 08:36 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep[Laughs] I tell you what we do, all right? Andre: What? Stefano: Let us go paint the town red, huh? Shall we do that? Andre: Absolutely
Hope: You know, I can't believe tonight is the night. Everything is gonna change for us. Aiden: Yeah. That's an understatement. Stefano: [Chuckles] Victor: Looks like you made a wrong turn, Stefano. Stefano: My friend, this town is my home, huh? I am entitled to celebrate tonight just like everyone else is. Andre: The bicentennial committee didn't seem to have any disdain towards the last check we sent them. Maggie: You're wrong about that. That check was not cashed. And it won't be. Victor: So why don't you boys just jump into the Batmobile and hit the road? Andre: You're wrong about us. All of you. And your righteous indignation-- when Chad is cleared, and he will be, we'll settle our debts with a lot of you. Victor: Which part of "get out" do you not understand? Rafe: You wanna leave on your own, or you wanna do this the hard way? Andre: This is a public place. Stefano: Andre, it's all right. We don't need to stay. [Chuckles] Andre: Look, our sole purpose was coming here tonight to wish the bride-to-be the best of everything. Stefano: Ah. Hope: To hell with your wishes. Stefano: Oh, you never change. Roman: Stefano, that was not a good idea. Stefano: It's all right. We're going. Many happy returns, darling.
Andre: Ah, the good people of Salem. They never disappoint. Stefano: Ah, for sure, for sure. All I wanted to do was to say a proper good-bye to hope. Now that I have, all right, I am going to bed. Yes, indeed. Andre: Sweet dreams. I'm gonna stay up for a while. There's just a couple things I need to sort out.
Thank you!! :hail: :hail: :hail: So over the "Stefano was an old, feeble man in a wheelchair..." Stefano was evil and he deserved from Hope, from Marlena, from John, Bo, Steve, Kayla, Caroline and half of Salem everything Hope did and then some....which was quite humane compared to what he did to her and her friends and loved ones.
It's not that I don't agree that he deserved worse. But the way it played out was horrible. There could have been a good story in Hope getting the wrong man. They just didn't hit anywhere near that story, and the result is that it made Hope look pathetic...and not in a soapy, dramatic way. I do think they salvaged some of it on Friday. Time will tell if they'll be able to salvage all of it, but I doubt they will. Where they really screwed up was having her confess to the other murder and then frame Andre. And again...I'm not saying Andre doesn't deserve that, too. It just wasn't done well. And wanting something different from the good guys than the bad guys isn't living in different realities. It's thinking more highly of some characters than others. It's believing that some characters shouldn't have to sink to the lows as others. It's believing that good can triumph over evil. Having an occasional slip up is one thing. That can be dramatic. But sometimes Days takes it too far. Your last paragraph expressed my feeling about "good guys" much better than my own post.
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Mitchapalooza
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Feb 28 2016, 12:03 AM
Post #411
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^ My face watching DAYS
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Best episode in nearly 3 months by far....and let me stress, every episode since early December has been horrendous to se degree...this episode was solid calibre and really shocked me how quickly this shows quality can change on a dime...Griffith is defintrly behind the episodes right now.
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laurondo
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Feb 28 2016, 06:15 AM
Post #412
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- lysie
- Feb 27 2016, 07:58 PM
- jam6242
- Feb 27 2016, 07:07 PM
- laurondo
- Feb 27 2016, 05:55 PM
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And that's the fault of the writing. "Good" characters can be interesting too but it takes skilled writers to bring that about. Days hasn't had that kind of writing in decades.
I was gonna say...and let's not pretend that there haven't also been huge writing mistakes in the writing for villains. Some villains may be more interest, but we've also had a LOT of duds. And some are interesting sometimes and boring other times. It's not good=boring and bad=interesting. It's well-written=interesting and poorly written=boring. You do have a point. Clyde became an interesting "villain" (at least more interesting to me) once the writers changed.
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Kyrai
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Feb 28 2016, 07:04 AM
Post #413
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- Boisthebest
- Feb 27 2016, 10:22 PM
- Kyrai
- Feb 27 2016, 08:18 AM
- KweenBoda
- Feb 26 2016, 10:57 PM
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To me it's more once you go this route of letting the police decide when it's okay to murder someone, you've lost basic integrity the show needs. It's totally different if someone is threatening you, and you kill in self defense. This was NOT self defense. Hope barged into Stefano's home and murdered him. He has done awful things in the past, but he wasn't threatening her life then. If Rafe had arrested her, I would have been fine with Hope being declared temporarily insane and getting treatment. But no, Rafe gets to decide that it really wasn't a crime to kill Stefano, and he and Hope cover it up, and now Roman agrees. So three cops are now taking the law into their own hands. In addition, they've framed Andre. I agree for all Andre has done, he should have been locked away a long time ago, but putting anyone away shouldn't be based on cops forging evidence. But at least now anytime the writers write themselves into a corner, they can just have the corrupt Salem PD do whatever they want. They're above the law so now they can go after anyone they want with impunity. Great, just what I want to see in my soap. So much for daytime drama. The writers have an easy way out of every story. Hope can just shoot Chase now for raping Ciara.
Integrity???? What integrity? When a torturing, sadistic old man, who has had people killed, has raped, has kidnapped and manipulated, has a family WHO KNOW what and who he is, give his grandchildren time with him as if he is just another grandfather, integrity is long gone. Sorry, I will not accept that there are different sets of reality for the villains and good guys, cops or otherwise. If the villains get to play in a fantasy world, so do the good guys. Can't have it both ways. So again, you're saying cops should be the judge for people, no due process.
I don't expect a soap to be like real life. I actually expect real life to be far worse than soap life. I watch a soap to escape. I don't like people getting away with crimes. I root against them. When a villain gets away with it, it's frustratingly soapy. You kinda expect it. How many crimes did Vic get away with? The good guys should not become villains themselves. And as I've said, I don't have nearly as big an issue with Hope having a mental break down and killing Stefano in some kind of psychotic episode. The cops covering it up is what I have an issue with. If the cops can do whatever they want, there is no integrity.
Bo almost shot Victor. Would you have liked Bo have to shot an unarmed Vic at a party? Vic was most certainly a cunning evil villain at the time. I'm glad the original writers didn't feel this way. Vic would be long dead.
Edited by Kyrai, Feb 28 2016, 07:06 AM.
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Kyrai
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Feb 28 2016, 07:25 AM
Post #414
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- Restless84
- Feb 27 2016, 08:16 PM
- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 08:08 PM
Andre blackmailed Aiden into being a "hitman" -- to kill Hope.
I have a question: Did Stefano know that Andre ordered the hit on Hope? Was Stefano complicit in the crime?
(I focused more on the non-murder storylines, and didn't focus on the murder plots, so I honestly don't know.)
Yes, Stefano knew Andre had Aidren try to kill Hope. He was in the room when they had their discussions. Exactly.
There were so many ways the writers could have made killing Stefano justified. Hope or Rafe could have found proof that Aiden was working for Stefano, so they went after him. Stefano and Andre could have gotten shot trying to kill Hope or Rafe to get away, true self defense. They could have even had Stefano/Andre finding out Belle has their money (everyone else knows!), and while threatening Belle, had a shoot out.
Or they could have simply arrested Hope and had her mentally evaluated and put in a mental institution for even a week, it would have been better than the police covering up a murder.
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Kyrai
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Feb 28 2016, 07:37 AM
Post #415
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- Deverauxfan
- Feb 26 2016, 10:39 PM
I don't really see why Chad should be celebrating Stefano's death. :shrug: He didn't last time. Why would he do that this time? They didn't have the best relationship, but it wasn't the worst parent/child relationship. :-/ When most of the town turned against Chad, Stefano stood by him and helped him. I think it would be odd for Chad not to have any feelings. I liked the way BF played the scenes.
If Chad does find out about Hope just shooting Steffie and the police covering it up, I'd like him questioning how the police can do this. I just would hate for that thinking to put him on the wrong path. I love Chad. Ben should be enough to deal with.
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Boisthebest
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Feb 28 2016, 08:18 AM
Post #416
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- lysie
- Feb 27 2016, 10:38 PM
- Boisthebest
- Feb 27 2016, 10:00 PM
- AngelaP
- Feb 27 2016, 08:36 PM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep[Laughs] I tell you what we do, all right? Andre: What? Stefano: Let us go paint the town red, huh? Shall we do that? Andre: Absolutely
Hope: You know, I can't believe tonight is the night. Everything is gonna change for us. Aiden: Yeah. That's an understatement. Stefano: [Chuckles] Victor: Looks like you made a wrong turn, Stefano. Stefano: My friend, this town is my home, huh? I am entitled to celebrate tonight just like everyone else is. Andre: The bicentennial committee didn't seem to have any disdain towards the last check we sent them. Maggie: You're wrong about that. That check was not cashed. And it won't be. Victor: So why don't you boys just jump into the Batmobile and hit the road? Andre: You're wrong about us. All of you. And your righteous indignation-- when Chad is cleared, and he will be, we'll settle our debts with a lot of you. Victor: Which part of "get out" do you not understand? Rafe: You wanna leave on your own, or you wanna do this the hard way? Andre: This is a public place. Stefano: Andre, it's all right. We don't need to stay. [Chuckles] Andre: Look, our sole purpose was coming here tonight to wish the bride-to-be the best of everything. Stefano: Ah. Hope: To hell with your wishes. Stefano: Oh, you never change. Roman: Stefano, that was not a good idea. Stefano: It's all right. We're going. Many happy returns, darling.
Andre: Ah, the good people of Salem. They never disappoint. Stefano: Ah, for sure, for sure. All I wanted to do was to say a proper good-bye to hope. Now that I have, all right, I am going to bed. Yes, indeed. Andre: Sweet dreams. I'm gonna stay up for a while. There's just a couple things I need to sort out.
Thank you!! :hail: :hail: :hail: So over the "Stefano was an old, feeble man in a wheelchair..." Stefano was evil and he deserved from Hope, from Marlena, from John, Bo, Steve, Kayla, Caroline and half of Salem everything Hope did and then some....which was quite humane compared to what he did to her and her friends and loved ones.
It's not that I don't agree that he deserved worse. But the way it played out was horrible. There could have been a good story in Hope getting the wrong man. They just didn't hit anywhere near that story, and the result is that it made Hope look pathetic...and not in a soapy, dramatic way. I do think they salvaged some of it on Friday. Time will tell if they'll be able to salvage all of it, but I doubt they will. Where they really screwed up was having her confess to the other murder and then frame Andre. And again...I'm not saying Andre doesn't deserve that, too. It just wasn't done well. And wanting something different from the good guys than the bad guys isn't living in different realities. It's thinking more highly of some characters than others. It's believing that some characters shouldn't have to sink to the lows as others. It's believing that good can triumph over evil. Having an occasional slip up is one thing. That can be dramatic. But sometimes Days takes it too far. DAYS takes a lot of things too far, as do many of the soaps. For me, romanticizing rape, as in making rapists leading romantic men was way too far. Or having any character we are supposed to admire/think highly of, like say Abe or Lexi, allow their son have a relationship with someone they KNEW had kidnapped, shot, emotionally and physically abused others cause they are "related."
Again, I think for me, the show became so totally lopsided, when the characters I am supposed to think highly of, came off as zombie stupid. I remember back in the day (83-84), the first time Marlena found out that Stefano had "killed Roman", had kidnapped the twins, she went after him. Her intent was to kill him, no holds barred. THAT to me made Marlena believable. For many of what I considered the "quality" writing years, Stefano was a villain, acknowledged as one, and was not able to hobnob in Salem, mock his victims, invite his victims' families to work for him, be involved in the lives of his victims. Back then, I wanted the good guys to be better because I still believed, writing wise there was always a chance someone would take Stefano down. Later it became a joke. Stefano and his minions could do the most heinous things, with the most asinine justification fed to the audience, and still be allowed to be in Salem, mocking the victims daily.
I know many disagree, and that is why this is a debate. I cheered when Marlena, despite her position of lead heroine for years, gave Stefano a drug that paralyzed him but left his conscious brain working while nothing else did. That was probably one of the most sadistic things one could do to a person. Yet, it did not diminish her in my eyes because Stefano's years of sadism imposed on John and Marlena certainly warranted it. Same with Hope this time. Hope's actions were not as cruel as what Marlena did, just more permanent.
Was it written well?? Nope? Was it the best way to write out Stefano? Probably not? But I can say that about many stories over the year. However, for me at least, it was balanced. FINALLY one of Stefano's victims took away his Salem pass ....permanently. I know many disagree. This debate proves that. But I had been sick of the joke they made of the good guys for better than 20 years now so I was happy for some balance even though I know it won't last.
I have said it before and I say it again. To me, the genre started going downhill when the villains began to drive most of the stories, and all the good guys got to do is suffer and play the foil.
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Boisthebest
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Feb 28 2016, 08:30 AM
Post #417
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- nananana7
- Feb 27 2016, 04:11 PM
- DrewHamilton
- Feb 27 2016, 09:07 AM
I think that’s a big problem with soaps nowadays. The villains have been on so much and have been turned into real characters that they are no longer viewed as “villains.” These villains shouldn’t have fans upset that they’re being killed. They’re the bad guys!
^ This! In my opinion, the DiMeras should never have been a core family for the show. Stefano should have been a recurring character for occasional arcs, but that's all. I refused to watch GH because they made mobster Sonny Corinthos into a main character with a family. That ruined GH for me. You and me both. Cannot stand the romanticizing of the villains. I think, for me, that has been the downfall of the soaps, making villains above the law, the good guys helpless to do anything but play their victims.
When shows are so unbalanced, that the good guys are nothing more foils incapable of ever getting justice, is it any surprise that some fans start to cheer for the "good guys" to cross the line? Otherwise how do we ever get any resolution knowing no matter what, our favorites always lose. That is not balanced writing. Gray characters are indeed the most interesting but characters like the Dimeras ceased being gray many decades ago. Torture and imprisonment, brainwashing and rape with no repercussions gives fans of the good guys what?????
So I agree with your sentiments....
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stormymac
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Feb 28 2016, 08:46 AM
Post #418
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- anzu
- Feb 26 2016, 06:48 PM
- Luce
- Feb 26 2016, 03:31 PM
- anzu
- Feb 26 2016, 12:53 PM
hmmm, right-hand-man Sonny? I wanted Sonny to come back gray but with Josh writing, I'm terrified
I wouldn't mind if Sonny came back very angry at the world and delved into business with Victor to try and forget the awful end to his marriage and the fact that Will is dead. Making it part of the plot like that would at least make some sense rather than just randomly changing his personality. He got cheated on and lied to and manipulated by someone he loved very much, who then was brutally murdered which is traumatic in and of itself. But it also means Sonny has zero change of ever resolving any of those aforementioned issues with his now-dead husband. I mean, I think I'd probably end up at least a little bitter after all that. But if they were to do that I would hope that a longer-term plan would be in place to inevitably bring him back around to at least a very decent, level-headed person at his core, if not just a bit more edgy. Bonus points if Paul is who eventually gets through to Sonny to remind him of who he is/was. :D But all of that is probably just massive wishful thinking since I don't see how any kind of long-term plan can be in place for Sonny at all with all this writer mix-up, unfortunately. I wasn't confident before, and I'm even less-so now, that Sonny is back in any kind of on-going capacity. We've had two photos, fairly close together, as our only evidence (along with Jason's confirmation that it's actually him).
I wanted sonny back like ths too because it is insane to me how nonreactive he was to trauma after trauma last year. I would also love for Paul to talk him off the edge. My worry is josh doesnt know how to write characters on the edge. He just kicks them right off and Sonny is probably the best person on the show. I dont want him killing anyone or kicking puppies or whatwver other compelling darkness josh can dream up. But alas he might be back for 4 days again so i wont get my hopes up. Add to the fact that he was the one who gave Ben a job, continually defended him against Chad (rightfully so, IMO) and got him the apartment where Ben would eventually kill his husband, then Sonny should absolutely be different, personality-wise. But, like you, I won't be holding my breath. My one desperate hope is that he won't be a fucking doormat this time around.
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Boisthebest
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Feb 28 2016, 08:55 AM
Post #419
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- Kyrai
- Feb 28 2016, 07:04 AM
- Boisthebest
- Feb 27 2016, 10:22 PM
- Kyrai
- Feb 27 2016, 08:18 AM
Quoting limited to 3 levels deep
Integrity???? What integrity? When a torturing, sadistic old man, who has had people killed, has raped, has kidnapped and manipulated, has a family WHO KNOW what and who he is, give his grandchildren time with him as if he is just another grandfather, integrity is long gone. Sorry, I will not accept that there are different sets of reality for the villains and good guys, cops or otherwise. If the villains get to play in a fantasy world, so do the good guys. Can't have it both ways.
So again, you're saying cops should be the judge for people, no due process. I don't expect a soap to be like real life. I actually expect real life to be far worse than soap life. I watch a soap to escape. I don't like people getting away with crimes. I root against them. When a villain gets away with it, it's frustratingly soapy. You kinda expect it. How many crimes did Vic get away with? The good guys should not become villains themselves. And as I've said, I don't have nearly as big an issue with Hope having a mental break down and killing Stefano in some kind of psychotic episode. The cops covering it up is what I have an issue with. If the cops can do whatever they want, there is no integrity. Bo almost shot Victor. Would you have liked Bo have to shot an unarmed Vic at a party? Vic was most certainly a cunning evil villain at the time. I'm glad the original writers didn't feel this way. Vic would be long dead. Comparing Bo to almost shooting his biological father and Hope shooting the man who kidnapped her, had her raped, who did unspeakable and horrendous things to her family and friends for decades, does not work for me.
First of all, Victor, at that time had not come close to doing to the Bradys what Stefano had. And over the years, Victor showed some remorse, some humanity. Stefano never did. Stefano taunted his victims and victimized them over and over.
I never wanted to the good guys to become villains and to me Hope is still not a villain. Of course covering it up will backfire and that is pretty soapy. But frankly I am sick of the good guys being written as pathetic, impotent victims over and over and over and over...... And then to have Stefano laugh at and taunt Hope over Bo's death. Seriously, she is supposed to be "above that". :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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esp13
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Feb 28 2016, 10:32 AM
Post #420
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I don't really care for the good guys killing people and then covering it, but there is this part of me that says "finally." I've spent thirty years watching this soap (on and off anyway) and thirty years rolling my eyes at the good guys saying "you'll pay for this (insert villain here)" only to have the villains never actually pay (at least the main ones). So a little part of me is like, maybe it's time somebody snapped and really did it.
The problem for me is more that they have these two stories running concurrently and that makes it feel like vigilantism is running amok in Salem. And I don't particularly like the cops covering up the Stefano's murder and framing Andre for it. But Hope finally reaching the end of her rope with Stefano? I can live with that. And Joey knowing that in Salem the bad guys always get away with it and the good guys pay and not wanting that to happen to his mom? I can deal with that too.
We'll see where the rest of the story goes as to whether it works or not...
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